Test drove a E93 and a E92 Comp. Somewhat confused?

[///M///]

Hey all, so I just sold my E46 M3 couple of weeks ago and am in the process of looking for a E90/92 M3. Having never driven one I decided to test drive whatever my local dealer had in stock. Here at the 2 cars I drove back to back:

1) 2008 E93 M3 DCT 33000 miles

2) 2011 E92 M3 DCT with competition package 16000 miles


I first drove the E93 and I have to admit I wasn't impressed. I turned on the EDC as well as the Power and the M button.
- it felt smoothly fast but there was no raw power feel to it
- exhaust tone was missing and on high revs I heard more of a whine (no it was not supercharged). It was totally stock
- I never heard the downshift rev match. No clue why?
- the car felt a little floaty and overall I didn't like it that much

Now onto the 2011 E92 with the comp package. OMG it totally blew me away. It felt every bit good as I had expected it to be and the exhaust tone was amazing, the down shift rev match sounded awesome. I totally loved that car

You might think that I liked it more cuz it was a comp package with the tighter, better suspension but I am not even comparing that. I am just comparing the feel and sound of the engine and the exhaust. This seemed to be lacking on the E93. Even the DCT shifts felt way better and crisper on the E92.

Just to reconfirm, I drove both cars with similar settings. I never could go fast enough to test the handling. And yes, both cars were bone stock.

So I am super confused......why such a HUGE difference? I know the E93 is a lot heavier but I wasn't even looking at the handling or straight line accelaration aspect. The overall sound and shifts on the 2011 coupe was so much better, I loved every sec of it.

Not sure if this was a 2008 vs 2011 issue cuz I am not away of any or does the E93 just ride/feel and sound very different?

Or was it just a bad car that I drove?

Thanks.

[PhillyNate]

Nearly 400lb weight difference between coupe and vert. 3 year and double the mileage difference in cars as well. I personally would have bought an M3 eventually even if a ZCP(Competition) package were not available. I doubt if ZCP totally tranforms the car. What I believe it does is take a car at 8.8/10ths to 9/10ths. That's all. I'm not a convertible guy, so that coupled with the added weight would've totally ruined the experience for me and wasn't even in the equation. Go drive some more coupes and some sedans for that matter and come back and tell us how you feel again. Good luck.

[///M///]

Thanks. That's the plan for sure. I see you are local in Philly am finding it so hard to find any good private party cars locally. Don't plan to buy any from the stealership with their rip off prices Hoping to find a E90 soon what stumped me in the E93 was the exhaust and engine one. Didn't sound half as good as the E92.

Originally Posted by PhillyNate

Nearly 400lb weight difference between coupe and vert. 3 year and double the mileage difference in cars as well. I personally would have bought an M3 eventually even if a ZCP(Competition) package were not available. I doubt if ZCP totally tranforms the car. What I believe it does is take a car at 8.8/10ths to 9/10ths. That's all. I'm not a convertible guy, so that coupled with the added weight would've totally ruined the experience for me and wasn't even in the equation. Go drive some more coupes and some sedans for that matter and come back and tell us how you feel again. Good luck.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by dsm918

what stumped me in the E93 was the exhaust and engine one. Didn't sound half as good as the E92.

That doesn't make any sense unless the E92 had an M Performance exhaust or aftermarket. Stock exhaust is the same between all models. If anything it should be more amplified on the E93.

[PhillyNate]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Thanks. That's the plan for sure. I see you are local in Philly am finding it so hard to find any good private party cars locally. Don't plan to buy any from the stealership with their rip off prices Hoping to find a E90 soon what stumped me in the E93 was the exhaust and engine one. Didn't sound half as good as the E92.

Depending on who you ask around here, some say the later year cars are stronger. I know some engine internals changed from 2008 to the present. Some also say the exhausts sound healthier on later years as well. I personally think the stock exhaust is classy and sounds good but is too quiet. Finding cars to test drive is going to be hit or miss for a variety of reasons but keep trying.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

That doesn't make any sense unless the E92 had an M Performance exhaust or aftermarket. Stock exhaust is the same between all models. If anything it should be more amplified on the E93.

I know! Right? That's what had me stumped I confirmed it had a stock exhaust.

Originally Posted by PhillyNate

Depending on who you ask around here, some say the later year cars are stronger. I know some engine internals changed from 2008 to the present. Some also say the exhausts sound healthier on later years as well. I personally think the stock exhaust is classy and sounds good but is too quiet. Finding cars to test drive is going to be hit or miss for a variety of reasons but keep trying.

You bet. Thanks again.

[jphughan]

The E93 will be a bit slower to build revs because of its added weight which might make it sound less "eager", but if you drove with the top down it definitely shouldn't have been quieter. Are you sure there were no relevant aftermarket mods on either one?

Some people have indeed speculated that newer engines are stronger; not sure about that, but the software for both the engine and transmission has definitely evolved somewhat, so it may be worth requesting a software update from the dealer or a vendor on these boards if you get an older model year. That could explain the transmission difference in particular, assuming you made certain you were in the same shift mode between the two cars as it sounds like you did.

As for the whine up top, that's characteristic of the engine, and frankly the fact that it can sound kind of like a muscle car up to 4K and start to channel F1 on the top end is one of the things I love about this engine.

Other than that, not sure what to tell you OP.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by jphughan

The E93 will be a bit slower to build revs because of its added weight which might make it sound less "eager", but if you drove with the top down it definitely shouldn't have been quieter. Are you sure there were no relevant aftermarket mods on either one?

Some people have indeed speculated that newer engines are stronger; not sure about that, but the software for both the engine and transmission has definitely evolved somewhat, so it may be worth requesting a software update from the dealer or a vendor on these boards if you get an older model year. That could explain the transmission difference in particular, assuming you made certain you were in the same shift mode between the two cars as it sounds like you did.

As for the whine up top, that's characteristic of the engine, and frankly the fact that it can sound kind of like a muscle car up to 4K and start to channel F1 on the top end is one of the things I love about this engine.

Other than that, not sure what to tell you OP.

Thanks, that helps. Was just looking to see if I missed anything. Let me put it this way, if I had just driven this particular E93, I would've left disappointed wondering what was so special about the M3? But after driving the newer E92 it was a world of a difference.

But as others have suggested I need to drive a few more to get a feel for the car.

Thanks.

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Thanks, that helps. Was just looking to see if I missed anything. Let me put it this way, if I had just driven this particular E93, I would've left disappointed wondering what was so special about the M3? But after driving the newer E92 it was a world of a difference.

.

The the difference between an E92 and an E93, 12% more weight is huge.

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by PhillyNate

I doubt if ZCP totally tranforms the car.

Haven't you heard? Any M3 without ZCP is a Civic.

[HALOTHANE]

Where the S program modes identical on both cars? You have to be in S5 to activate rev matching. Regardless, there is a distinct performance focused tune with the ZCP package. Also, if you plan to track the car you should get the E92. Never understood why M would make an M3 convertible (except to sell more cars). It seems incongruous with the focus of BMW Motorsport.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by HALOTHANE

Where the S program modes identical on both cars? You have to be in S5 to activate rev matching. Regardless, there is a distinct performance focused tune with the ZCP package. Also, if you plan to track the car you should get the E92. Never understood why M would make an M3 convertible (except to sell more cars). It seems incongruous with the focus of BMW Motorsport.

Are you saying there is no rev match in S1 thru S4? Wasn't aware of this

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Some people have indeed speculated that newer engines are stronger; not sure about that, but the software for both the engine and transmission has definitely evolved somewhat, so it may be worth requesting a software update from the dealer or a vendor on these boards if you get an older model year. That could explain the transmission difference in particular, assuming you made certain you were in the same shift mode between the two cars as it sounds like you did.

+1

Old software on the E93 could make a HUGE difference in the engine and transmission. I gained ~20 HP just from a software update for example. Some people even say that the brakes and steering feel better with new software.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by M3PO

+1

Old software on the E93 could make a HUGE difference in the engine and transmission. I gained ~20 HP just from a software update for example. Some people even say that the brakes and steering feel better with new software.

Do the 09's already have this update or was it later years? Is this a free update that the dealer an do if requested?

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by dsm918

Do the 09's already have this update or was it later years? Is this a free update that the dealer an do if requested?

BMW is continually updating the software. My car is an 08 6MT and had the original software. It's less likely that the older DCT cars will have the original software that they rolled off the line with because there was a pretty prominent issue with the DCT being sluggish. Because of that, a lot of the early DCT cars were updated. That said, even if it was updated for the sluggishness issue and hasn't been updated in the ~2 years since, it could still benefit from an update.

[amyoescobar]

It seems incongruous with the focus of BMW Motorsport

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dsm918

But as others have suggested I need to drive a few more to get a feel for the car.

Please update the thread when you do ... I've never driven any M3 except my 2011 e93 and it feels floaty. Prior to that I had an S4 and that was rock solid - felt like a bank vault on wheels with a rocket under it.

But the floaty feeling ... I definitely have that. I've got the 18" wheels and I do still have winters on but am thinking of getting some Volk te37 18s w Michelin PSPs and am hoping that makes it feel more stable.

If not ... well then I guess the e93 is just floaty. There's no way in hell I'm driving anything but a 'vert so if that's the case I'll just have to deal w it.

Anyway, please update the thread after you drive a few more and thanks in advance!

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by HALOTHANE

You have to be in S5 to activate rev matching. Regardless, there is a distinct performance focused tune with the ZCP package.

Incorrect on both counts. S4 includes rev-matching, and I believe (but am not certain) that S3 does as well. And the ZCP-specific software only applies to Sport EDC (where it's adaptive like Normal and Comfort rather than static the way it is on non-ZCP cars) and a more lenient MDM mode -- but Euro MDM which is even more lenient can be coded to cars anyway, even those that didn't come with M Drive from the factory if you buy one relatively inexpensive and easy to install part. More info available if you search MDM Retrofit. But there's nothing about the engine or transmission software that's unique to ZCP. Maybe you're thinking of the M3 GTS?

Originally Posted by dsm918

Do the 09's already have this update or was it later years? Is this a free update that the dealer an do if requested?

Updates are continuous. The recent 231E engine software that's been discussed on here was only released a few months ago. Software updates are only free if you're under warranty and you complain about a problem for which BMW has a TSB where the recommended fix is to update the software. If you don't have such a problem and/or you're out of warranty, then it would be on your dime.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Please update the thread when you do ... I've never driven any M3 except my 2011 e93 and it feels floaty. Prior to that I had an S4 and that was rock solid - felt like a bank vault on wheels with a rocket under it.

But the floaty feeling ... I definitely have that. I've got the 18" wheels and I do still have winters on but am thinking of getting some Volk te37 18s w Michelin PSPs and am hoping that makes it feel more stable.

If not ... well then I guess the e93 is just floaty. There's no way in hell I'm driving anything but a 'vert so if that's the case I'll just have to deal w it.

Anyway, please update the thread after you drive a few more and thanks in advance!

Will do for sure.

Originally Posted by jphughan

Incorrect on both counts. S4 includes rev-matching, and I believe (but am not certain) that S3 does as well. And the ZCP-specific software only applies to Sport EDC (where it's adaptive like Normal and Comfort rather than static the way it is on non-ZCP cars) and a more lenient MDM mode -- but Euro MDM which is even more lenient can be coded to cars anyway, even those that didn't come with M Drive from the factory if you buy one relatively inexpensive and easy to install part. More info available if you search MDM Retrofit. But there's nothing about the engine or transmission software that's unique to ZCP. Maybe you're thinking of the M3 GTS?



Updates are continuous. The recent 231E engine software that's been discussed on here was only released a few months ago. Software updates are only free if you're under warranty and you complain about a problem for which BMW has a TSB where the recommended fix is to update the software. If you don't have such a problem and/or you're out of warranty, then it would be on your dime.

Thanks for the clarification. This really helps.

[Phantom_9192]

My car rev-matches in S4 but not S3. That appears to be the cutoff. Even though I wish I could do the match manually in S4 like I did in my SMG E46, I still vastly prefer S4 over S3 in the DCT.

[M4Now!]

There's some problem with the e93; as others have said, if you didn't hear the exhaust and it wasn't fast, there's some drivetrain problem.

Cheers

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Phantom_9192

My car rev-matches in S4 but not S3. That appears to be the cutoff. Even though I wish I could do the match manually in S4 like I did in my SMG E46, I still vastly prefer S4 over S3 in the DCT.

S3 will rev match but you really have to be on it; ive got a couple of fast switchbacks coming off of a freeway that require lots of shifting and the final ones will rev match