World's First F80 M3 Running on 100% Methanol Fuel (In the gas tank)

[F80Paul]

Hey guys,

I wanted to share something I've been working on this week. I've recently setup my car with a custom PI configuration that gives me the capability to R&D pretty much any fueling situation I want. I'll explain more about this later but let me cut to the chase:

I was able to run a 6.025 60-130 on PS4S's with lots of wheelspin and nothing more than straight Sunoco Methanol in the gas tank. No meth injection on this run. 28psi / 14deg timing / .835 Lambda. Flash only Bootmod3 tune.

How did I do that?

Methanol is the most demanding (on the fuel system) fuel we have available with it's Stoich of 6.45. So it takes a lot of it!

A few weeks ago I installed a Fuel-It rail with 950cc injectors, a Stage 4 LPFP with all new fuel lines, a Split Second flash only injector controller, and a custom 3 way valve allowing me to switch between PI from the gas tank OR from my meth pump/tank in the trunk. I also have a Torqbyte controller which I use to control the fuel-it secondary LPFP as well as my methanol pump in the trunk(which was not used for this test).

For this experiment, I switched my 3way valve to feed the PI injectors from the LPFP/gas tank.

I added Alcohol top lube to the Sunoco 100% methanol before pouring it in the tank.

I first tuned the car on the stock fuel system alone(no PI) using all the tricks I have learned tuning for Ethanol blends. It was quite easy to get into misfire territory by 16psi on methanol, but I was able to get perfect cold starts and part throttle drivability on the stock DI alone.

Next, I began dialing in the IAC Split second controller driving the fuel-it rail with the 950cc bosch injectors. I continued to add fuel via PI, adjust the fuel compensation in the flash, and turn up the boost!

I arrived at the limit where the HPFP and LPFP pressures could no longer keep up and started taking a dive. That limit with 100% meth was around 28psi.

The car is making big power at merely 28psi and 14deg timing, as evidenced by the 6.025 60-130. I attribute it to the great fueling characteristics of Methanol. These motors like Alcohol!


My next test will be to add some Methanol injection to this, as well blend some 93 in the tank to bring the content down to around M85 which is safer. Blending ethanol or methanol with gasoline greatly reduces isn't corrosiveness. Even with the top lube added I would never run M100 long term.

I'm attaching some photos below showing some of the setup I have as well as the verified Vbox graphs and a BM3 log snapshot from my test.

P.S Huge shout out to Steve at Fuel-It for the awesome support and I would like to thank Jesse with Pure Turbos, these turbos he made me that work with the custom inlets that I made have been flawless. You can see from the WGDC in the log that they barely have to work to achieve 28psi up top!

[FriedPiston]

That is one bad ass yet complex setup! Hopefully that will all translate to even better tunes for BM3 folks.

[chewbakam4]

Methanol straight from the fuel tank? That’s a first! Did you have to add more tuning tables to BM3 for tuning or did pretty much the E85 stuff carry over? Really amazing stuff right there and fairly bolton still it seems. I don’t have E85 close by but methanol is in abundance.

[F80Paul]

Originally Posted by nars3000

That is one bad ass yet complex setup! Hopefully that will all translate to even better tunes for BM3 folks.

Thanks! I do think there were some things to learn here. M15-M85 is available at the pump in China so I think this could be practical there.

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

Methanol straight from the fuel tank? That’s a first! Did you have to add more tuning tables to BM3 for tuning or did pretty much the E85 stuff carry over? Really amazing stuff right there and fairly bolton still it seems. I don’t have E85 close by but methanol is in abundance.

Pretty much the same tuning approach as with Ethanol, except that even more fuel volume is required. After getting the Fuel scalar and compensation dialed in the cold starts and part throttle performance was just as smooth as with any other fuel. The stock fuel system alone won't support straight M100 though, it's just too demanding volume wise. I only got to 16psi. With PI, however, results are great. 28psi and probably close to 700whp.

[BuLoOoSki]

Impressive

So how does the car's performance compare when running M85 vs E85?

[F80Paul]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Impressive

So how does the car's performance compare when running M85 vs E85?

That's a complicated question to answer because the fuel volume requirements are different. But let's say hypothetically you didn't have a fuel volume limit and simply compared M85 to E85 at the same tune parameters (boost/Lambda/timing,etc). I think the M85 would win because OF the effects of extra volume you are having to deliver to achieve the same Lambda. The high oxygen content and combustion chamber cooling effect of running methanol is pretty astounding.

[EALm4]

this is some mad scientist shit here..... love it.

Where'd you get the stainless lines for the charge pipes? I've been tinkering with the idea to upgrade mine.

[F80Paul]

Originally Posted by EALm4

this is some mad scientist shit here..... love it.

Where'd you get the stainless lines for the charge pipes? I've been tinkering with the idea to upgrade mine.

Haha thanks dude. Yeah I’ve been through three iterations of meth lines and finally found something reliable. What you want to use is nitrous lines and fittings. I’m using -6an from the pump to the front of the car and then -4an from there. Summit racing is where I order that kind of stuff.

[EALm4]

Originally Posted by F80Paul

Haha thanks dude. Yeah I’ve been through three iterations of meth lines and finally found something reliable. What you want to use is nitrous lines and fittings. I’m using -6an from the pump to the front of the car and then -4an from there. Summit racing is where I order that kind of stuff.

Did you buy the pre-made lengths or custom cut the line and install the fittings. I ask bc I'm not sure if I have the tools around here to properly cut the stainless line without it fraying everywhere and having a poor connections to the fitting. I cant risk having meth spray all over the place.

[F80Paul]

Originally Posted by EALm4

Did you buy the pre-made lengths or custom cut the line and install the fittings. I ask bc I'm not sure if I have the tools around here to properly cut the stainless line without it fraying everywhere and having a poor connections to the fitting. I cant risk having meth spray all over the place.

Both, I custom made everything from the tank forward and then used pre-made lines for the shorter lengthens under the hood. But you can get pre made lines in just about any length so as long as you measure correctly you should be fine!

[F80Paul]

Originally Posted by EALm4

Did you buy the pre-made lengths or custom cut the line and install the fittings. I ask bc I'm not sure if I have the tools around here to properly cut the stainless line without it fraying everywhere and having a poor connections to the fitting. I cant risk having meth spray all over the place.

Oh and get a real in-line filter, like the one you see next to my tank. Those little ones that come with the BMS kit and attach to the solenoid are a major restriction and clog up fast.

[EALm4]

Originally Posted by F80Paul

Oh and get a real in-line filter, like the one you see next to my tank. Those little ones that come with the BMS kit and attach to the solenoid are a major restriction and clog up fast.

Noted. I think I'm going to overhaul my lines. How'd you run the line? 6AN line looks pretty beefy to run through the cabin and hide under the panels. Did you go outside under the car? Are you running the stealth tank? I'm trying to figure out how to properly get it paired up to the pump.

[whoop_ass]

Brilliant work as usual Paul.
some impressive results with only 28 PSi and you just tickling the pure's at 28 psi..
84% WGDC ..LOL!!

[AGM_m3f80]

Astonishing setup ...I think we're about to see a new records soon
Good job Paul

[chewbakam4]

Records be droppin’ like flies!

[IND-Distribution]

Wow...this is pretty crazy. Great work on pushing the boundaries...excited to see your results when you run the M85.

Do you plan to stay at 28psi?

[Aapparition90]

Amazing work , i dont know any technical stuff but how much torque is this thing putting out, just curious as dct apparently not high torque friendly (bmw salesman ahmm) .Turbos look like a piece of art.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by F80Paul

That's a complicated question to answer because the fuel volume requirements are different. But let's say hypothetically you didn't have a fuel volume limit and simply compared M85 to E85 at the same tune parameters (boost/Lambda/timing,etc). I think the M85 would win because OF the effects of extra volume you are having to deliver to achieve the same Lambda. The high oxygen content and combustion chamber cooling effect of running methanol is pretty astounding.

Thanks for the explanation.

So you're using M5 in the tank I assume? Or M1 just like what you'd use for meth injection?

[F80Paul]

Originally Posted by EALm4

Noted. I think I'm going to overhaul my lines. How'd you run the line? 6AN line looks pretty beefy to run through the cabin and hide under the panels. Did you go outside under the car? Are you running the stealth tank? I'm trying to figure out how to properly get it paired up to the pump.

Keep in mind I'm setup to be able to feed the PI rail and/or 4 meth nozzles from my pump so that's why I did a -6an from the stealth tank/pump to a Y in the front (run under the car along with the fuel lines). Depending how much meth you are trying to flow you may be fine with -4an all around. -4an has a slightly larger ID compared to 1/4" nylon tubing.

Originally Posted by whoop_ass

Brilliant work as usual Paul.
some impressive results with only 28 PSi and you just tickling the pure's at 28 psi..
84% WGDC ..LOL!!

Thanks bro. Yeah these Pure's have really impressed me.

Originally Posted by AGM_m3f80

Astonishing setup ...I think we're about to see a new records soon
Good job Paul

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

Records be droppin’ like flies!

Haha soon maybe!

Originally Posted by Mike@IND

Wow...this is pretty crazy. Great work on pushing the boundaries...excited to see your results when you run the M85.

Do you plan to stay at 28psi?

Thanks! I've been testing M85 some today. I seem to have a STFT imbalance between bank 1 and 2 when I incorporate PI so before I push any more I'm going to have to test the PI injectors to be sure all cylinders are getting proper fuel. Gotta stay safe! I'll update this thread with my progress over the next few weeks.

Originally Posted by 328ihp

Amazing work , i dont know any technical stuff but how much torque is this thing putting out, just curious as dct apparently not high torque friendly (bmw salesman ahmm) .Turbos look like a piece of art.

I do still have stock DCT clutches and the key there is proper torque reporting to the DCT as well as managing the power curve. The stock rods are also a concern so I will be intentionally keeping boost managed through the midrange and keeping my power gains up top.

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Thanks for the explanation.

So you're using M5 in the tank I assume? Or M1 just like what you'd use for meth injection?

I use Sunoco fuels Methanol. I also add Alcohol Top Lube to it. Grape scented. haha

[mike@x-ph.com]

Nice!!

[chewbakam4]

Grape scented methanol! Nothing like a nice gass of wine with 700whp on tap!

[Pure Turbos]

This is outstanding Paul! Thanks so much for the great feedback and kind words. You are obviously very talented with tuning these cars. I'm excited to see more from you! 6.0 sec on 28psi and street tires is phenomenal! Now get some decent tires on that thing, and re-run the 60-130 with a little more boost!