Is Diesel different in IL and does it causes problems?

[beamer5]

I went to place an order for an X5 35d yesterday but the dealer cautioned me that they are seeing some issues with Diesel, due to some additive they add in Illinois. Could this be true? Anyone else in IL with a 35d having issues with mileage or other problems?

[Terp335]

I almost bought a 335d a few years ago but read that certain cities like Chicago (Annapolis MD being another) allowed for as much as 20% bio in their diesel fuel. My understanding, and I admit it's extremely limited, was that it is the bio fuel that can cause water vapor to form and damage some of the German built diesels. Now I'm sure I'll get flamed for misinformation

[BillK]

How much bio is acceptable? Stinks about Annapolis, I'm there often

[DavidTSG]

Originally Posted by BillK

How much bio is acceptable? Stinks about Annapolis, I'm there often

BMW says not more than 5%. Check with your local station to find out for sure what they carry. Shell has a page out there that says they don't sell >B5 in the US, but that's from a few years ago. Couldn't find much reliable and current information online about bio levels. Others might have better information.

[Terp335]

I thought B10 was pretty standard and acceptable. Illinois gives a sales tax exemption to any blend of B11 or higher, thus it's cheaper and you'd come across it more regularly.

I ordered a 335d in 2010, did some research and the quickly changed to a 335i. I'm back in the market to replace our 08 MDX (hate it btw) and really want to pull the trigger on a 35d but am hesitant because I feel like there is too much variation in diesel state to state. There is a guy at RRT here in VA with a 2010 x5d who has never had an issue and swears by his car and there are many others on this forum who leased an e70 diesel who are renewing in an f15 diesel so they are well liked by those who get them. I buy my vehicles, thus I am concerned about owning one beyond the warranty period. I'm curious to hear what other long term owners think of their d.

EDIT: B5 is standard not B10.

[kskpsu]

I was pursuing a 35d, then I saw Minnesota is marching towards mandating B20 for summer usage by 2015 (it would be B5 in winter). The fact that there is biodiesel production in this state (soybeans), you can see the bias/lobbying at work. I am fine with it if I have a choice, like offering B20 side-by-side at a reduced rate. But of course, we don't, much like with the other nonsense known as ethanol. Read this:

http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA..._Brochure5.pdf

And just like that, I have a 50i on order....

[beamer5]

Thanks for the info. This is certainly scary for anyone buying a diesel car in IL and other states where there is no B5 available. Begs the question as to how BMW can then sell diesels in these states and not honor warranty due to use of B20 fuel as it is the only fuel that is available.

This article mentions other states and the biodiesel additives used there. http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2012/...your-warranty/ . Looks like this problem is only going to grow.

I am disappointed as i was looking forward to the X35d but glad my dealer alerted me as I can still switch over to the 35i.

[kskpsu]

Great link, thank you. This isn't about diminishing the merit of all those wonderful diesel posts we've seen...I still salivate over the M50d. And for the US, the N57 is a phenomenal motor well suited for X5 application. This is simply about educating where risks exist in certain regions today, as well as the inevitable proliferation facilitated by those government individuals that are uniformed, yet easily influenced when setting policy. Research your respective area before ordering...on paper, the 35d is so compelling, but biodiesel can easily disrupt many of those advantages, particularly on german engines.

Good luck with the 35i! Perhaps target an October production date to capture the modest N55 revisions?

[Terp335]

Agree with kskpsu, the engine in the 35d is awesome and this is all about the US not getting their act together.

kskpsu, do stations in MN change the stickers on the pumps during summer months? I'm curious to know if stations like Shell who advertise no more than B5 are required to blend more too.

Here in VA, DC, & MD I mainly see the green b5 sticker on pumps. I have seen B20 outside the city though, and those pumps are marked clearly.

BMW also blamed the ethanol content for issues related to the HPFP and injectors on bad gas (too much ethanol) in the N54 and early N55 engines so it's not just the diesels impacted. I have the N55 in my 2011 335i and only fill up with Shell gas and have never had an issue. My father has a 2013 x3 3.5 with the N55 and fills up with any gas (premium of course) and has not had an issue either.

I have family about 60 miles outside of DC so I make it out there occasionally where I can find "real gas" with no ethanol in a few spots and there is a noticeable difference in the way the car drives.

[beamer5]

It seems Audi and Mercedes have certified using B20 in IL. This MB document explains the effects of B20 and actions to mitigate those effects. I would guess that these engines are not so different so what is applicable for MB should apply to BMW as well, but given BMW has not yet come up with any recommendations and only certifies B5, it is slightly worrisome buying a 35d. I know i can switch to a 35i but am still attracted to the diesel.

[Terp335]

I'm not sure if you read it, but there was a letter published in the August edition of Roundel regarding Illinois diesel and BMWs unofficial response to the use of B20. They had no plans to follow VW or MB to make B5 warranty exceptions for diesel owners that had no other options.

[kskpsu]

Originally Posted by Terp335

Agree with kskpsu, the engine in the 35d is awesome and this is all about the US not getting their act together.

kskpsu, do stations in MN change the stickers on the pumps during summer months? I'm curious to know if stations like Shell who advertise no more than B5 are required to blend more too.

Here in VA, DC, & MD I mainly see the green b5 sticker on pumps. I have seen B20 outside the city though, and those pumps are marked clearly.

BMW also blamed the ethanol content for issues related to the HPFP and injectors on bad gas (too much ethanol) in the N54 and early N55 engines so it's not just the diesels impacted. I have the N55 in my 2011 335i and only fill up with Shell gas and have never had an issue. My father has a 2013 x3 3.5 with the N55 and fills up with any gas (premium of course) and has not had an issue either.

I have family about 60 miles outside of DC so I make it out there occasionally where I can find "real gas" with no ethanol in a few spots and there is a noticeable difference in the way the car drives.

Speak it brother. Ethanol, biodiesel's evil twin, is equally worthless. In MN and Wisconsin, you can find the real stuff. Having lived in IL, it is impossible to find in the Chicagoland. On road trips between Minneapolis and Chicago, in my old 2005 X5 4.8is, I would post 10-15% better mileage on the real stuff. So, I expect significant loss in efficiency while running B20 if an engine should survive the potential damage. Therefore, to me, the value proposition for a german diesel in B20 states just isn't there. I will enjoy my 50i with great delight until Minnesota turns our corn surplus into E15

I am not well informed on labeling standards in MN. Seems inconsistent on the limited diesel pumps I've seen. Here is what my local BP looks like...green label doesn't necessarily assure good. By next year, this secondary label below the green ultra-low sulfur label may read 20% in summer if everything goes to plan...

[kskpsu]

I guess I should include the green sticker...

[beamer5]

BP in Chicago...

[MattBianco]

Originally Posted by kskpsu

.....Read this:

http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA..._Brochure5.pdf

And just like that, I have a 50i on order....

From that link:

QUOTE
The use of B5 will not result in a different smell.
Properly blended B6 to B20 Biodiesel should not exhibit an exhaust odor which significantly
differs from that of B5.
B100 exhaust has a different smell than that of B5 and B6 – B20 Diesel exhaust. B100 exhaust has a French fry odor.
UNQUOTE

If people around your tailpipe get McD cravings, you know you fueled with something that has very high bio content.

[kskpsu]

Originally Posted by beamer5

BP in Chicago...

Interesting. Now that you posted that, I think I've seen those labels here too. Heck of a range! Basis my local BP segmenting the seasonal blends, I think that label essentially means B5 in winter and B20 in summer. Got to love your state dictating which car you can buy, that's how I feel with my latest order...

[PunjabiM3]

Any links to which states use what blends? We currently are in AZ but will likely be moving to the Dallas area this Spring. Want to make sure I am good in both states prior to ordering our 35d.

[Terp335]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

Any links to which states use what blends? We currently are in AZ but will likely be moving to the Dallas area this Spring. Want to make sure I am good in both states prior to ordering our 35d.

I found this link to be helpful, although not completely transparent. Illinois, for example, is the same color as VA on the map yet Illinois appears to be much more aggressive with biodiesel and I wouldn't want to be there and own a German diesel.

http://www.c2es.org/us-states-region...-maps/biofuels

[kskpsu]

Originally Posted by Terp335

I found this link to be helpful, although not completely transparent. Illinois, for example, is the same color as VA on the map yet Illinois appears to be much more aggressive with biodiesel and I wouldn't want to be there and own a German diesel.

http://www.c2es.org/us-states-region...-maps/biofuels

Nice, Minnesota one of the few leading the way to fuel oppression! They are hinting at increasing the ethanol blend beyond 10% too. As a car guy, this could be a catalyst for moving if the winters and taxes weren't already compelling enough....

[jruerph]

"Shell has a page out there that says they don't sell >B5 in the US, but that's from a few years ago. Couldn't find much reliable and current information online about bio levels. Others might have better information"

To date that's still the case per my last email response from She'll customer service. If the diesel is a Shell branded diesel it should be B5 or less. Avoid diesel from a station that is labeled "This is not a Shell Product".