upgrading audio

strider · 06-10-2009, 03:05 PM

Hello all, I am new to this forum as I have just moved over from an Audi A4 to a brilliant e90 330.
The only thing I am disappointed with is the quality of the stereo.
My Audi had the Bose system which was OK but my 330 has a professional head unit and (I think) 6 speaker setup which is terrible.
I am going to replace the front door speakers with some infinity kappa 4" coaxial
and I am looking to possibly fit a 4 channel phoenix gold amp that I already own.
I have read the 'how to' guides by Gizze and azwillnj which are excellent but out of my budget.
Could anyone please help me with some questions i have regarding fitting my amp?

1) Does the standard 6 speaker setup have an OEM amp, if so where is it located?
2) How do i connect my amp to the existing wiring? i think i should use 2 channels for front speakers and bridged the other 2 for subs
3) Will the OEM subs be able to take more power without blowing?
4) Anything else i may need to know, due to being quite new to hybrid audio upgrades?

Thanks in advance.
Strider

amlebede · 06-10-2009, 08:05 PM

1) Does the standard 6 speaker setup have an OEM amp, if so where is it located?
2) How do i connect my amp to the existing wiring? i think i should use 2 channels for front speakers and bridged the other 2 for subs
3) Will the OEM subs be able to take more power without blowing?
4) Anything else i may need to know, due to being quite new to hybrid audio upgrades?

1) The OEM amp is located in the trunk to the left under the plastic plate (you may have a CD changer on top too depending on options).
2) First of all, get a multi-channel amp. A 6 or 7 channel amp would be best since this is what most BMW amps use. The Logic 7 system is 7 channel I believe. To connect the aftermarket amp to an aftermarket amp, you will need either a line converter or a sound processor (it will flatten the frequencies, give you more flexibility, and may improve sound quality; however, it will cost you at least $100 extra).
3) Do not overpower any of the factory speakers (putting on +10 bass or treble is not good for your subs already). If you want more bass, add a trunk subwoofer or change out your underseat subwoofers (only subwoofers that come with any BMW). The woofers (aka midbass) is capable of reproducing some bass at the cost of losing other frequencies (they are also unable to hit low frequencies like a subwoofer would).
4) It seems that you may want to take out the whole OEM sound system and put something new if you are dissatisfied with it. That is the best way to go for it. If you are just lacking lows and highs, put in some tweeters and a subwoofer(s).

Technic · 06-10-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Hello all, I am new to this forum as I have just moved over from an Audi A4 to a brilliant e90 330.
The only thing I am disappointed with is the quality of the stereo.
My Audi had the Bose system which was OK but my 330 has a professional head unit and (I think) 6 speaker setup which is terrible.
I am going to replace the front door speakers with some infinity kappa 4" coaxial
and I am looking to possibly fit a 4 channel phoenix gold amp that I already own.
I have read the 'how to' guides by Gizze and azwillnj which are excellent but out of my budget.
Could anyone please help me with some questions i have regarding fitting my amp?

1) Does the standard 6 speaker setup have an OEM amp, if so where is it located?
2) How do i connect my amp to the existing wiring? i think i should use 2 channels for front speakers and bridged the other 2 for subs
3) Will the OEM subs be able to take more power without blowing?
4) Anything else i may need to know, due to being quite new to hybrid audio upgrades?

Thanks in advance.
Strider

1) There's no OEM amp in your Stereo (6-speaker) system. Your Professional HU puts out 15W max at 4 ohms directly into 4 channels.
2) You will need to get/create a custom harness to interface your OEM HU to an aftermarket amp, as well as a line output converter if the aftermarket amp chosen cannot accept high level signals.
3) Your woofers are 6.5", connected in parallel to the front 4" full range speakers, all driven by just 15W max. In other words, for a noticiable improvement in sound quality you will need to replace at least the front speakers and woofers for better components and with better power handling than 7.5W max per speaker.
4) Your budget will determine what to get.

fdiprete · 06-11-2009, 06:51 AM

Another pro upgrade. I sense a reocurring theme.

With Technic's help I upgraded my pro hifi setup to a hybrid with great improvement.

saga is posted here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164359

VP Electricity · 06-11-2009, 09:49 AM

ambelede, why don't you stop posting and keep reading? You really are not knowledgeable enough to answer most of these questions, but you keep trying.

strider · 06-12-2009, 05:55 AM

Thank you for your advise. I think I will go for a speaker upgrade first that look at fitting the amp at a later date.
Are the rear shelf speakers 4" like the front ones?
Is it possible to upgrade the 6.5" sub enclosures in my car to the 8" ones on the 'hifi' setup then fit the sws drivers?

Cheers
Strider

Technic · 06-12-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Thank you for your advise. I think I will go for a speaker upgrade first that look at fitting the amp at a later date.
Are the rear shelf speakers 4" like the front ones?
Is it possible to upgrade the 6.5" sub enclosures in my car to the 8" ones on the 'hifi' setup then fit the sws drivers?

Cheers
Strider

You shelf speakers are 4" full range as the fronts; there are no tweeters in your base system.

A pair of SWS-8 fit in your existing enclosures. The woofer enclosures in your car are exactly the same as the 8" enclosures; the 6.5" woofers have an adapter to fit in that 8" hole.

fdiprete · 06-13-2009, 07:04 AM

Techic, Do you think the blaupunkt is an option for his setup?
(curious)

Technic · 06-13-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdiprete

Techic, Do you think the blaupunkt is an option for his setup?
(curious)

Yes it is but the OP already discarded that option due to budget restraints...

strider · 06-13-2009, 02:40 PM

Please tell me more about any options (blaupunkt??) . I may ebay the stuff i have to fund a feasable solution.
is there any restrictions in depth of speakers i can use to replace the 4" in front and shelf?

Technic · 06-13-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Please tell me more about any options (blaupunkt??) . I may ebay the stuff i have to fund a feasable solution.
is there any restrictions in depth of speakers i can use to replace the 4" in front and shelf?

Blaupunkt: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136594
Alpine OEM amp/speakers upgrade: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182752

strider · 06-13-2009, 04:24 PM

Ah, yes, sorry, the blaupunkt setup is a bit pricey.
I like the Alpine setup, would the Alpine amp be able to power the sws-8's if i was to upgrade to them at a later date?

Is it really not worth upgrading the rear shelf speakers?

Thanks again for advice.

Strider

Technic · 06-13-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Ah, yes, sorry, the blaupunkt setup is a bit pricey.
I like the Alpine setup, would the Alpine amp be able to power the sws-8's if i was to upgrade to them at a later date?

Is it really not worth upgrading the rear shelf speakers?

Thanks again for advice.

Strider

FYI: The THA555 amp costs slightly less than the Alpine OEM kit with the tweeter door trims.

The Alpine power output is not stated anywhere that I know of, however its fuse rating is 20A, so 220-240W max is a pretty decent estimate. Because the new speakers are actually the Logic7 mids and tweeters I think that this Alpine amp will put out some 40W for thefront 4" components and 70W for the woofers per channel.

The SWS-8 are rated at 300W max each, and they really like to be fed that much power -or even more- to sound great. That's where the THA555 will be a better amp for the SWS-8 than the Alpine OEM kit.

However, because your budget is limited I think that the Alpine OEM kit will give you a more effective, immediate and considerable sound upgrade just because you are both improving the front speakers and increasing power to the front stage. If eventually you want to add the SWS-8 you could do that and they should sound better than the 6.5" with that power.

manuelpolaco · 06-14-2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

ambelede, why don't you stop posting and keep reading? You really are not knowledgeable enough to answer most of these questions, but you keep trying.

....................

manuelpolaco · 06-14-2009, 12:45 AM

We should do a collection of all the post about audio system upgrade and place it in the DIY page for future generations.

Quasimodem · 06-14-2009, 08:31 AM

I am planning a similar upgrade my new BMW which has the basic professional HU. I have a sub for the trunk and a 4-channel PG amp.

My plan is to Upgrade the front part of the car to 3-way component systems, with 6.75" woofers under the seats (will require adapter plates). Power these, and maybe the rear deck speakers with my 4-channel PG amp. Put my sub in the trunk and power it with a PG mono sub amp.

Here is a link to someone else's post of a similar system (Morel with the addon 6.5 or 6.75" woofer) with links to lots of pics of the underseat adapter bracket:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76217

IMHO if you are putting a sub in the trunk you don't need the 8.5"s under the seats anymore, although it is not the best location for midranges.

Besides the Morel system, I have seen other 3-way possibilities (I don't know whether all the speakers fit or not):
Rockford Fosgate FNQ3146 (this may be out of production, can't find it on their website, but it is the cheapest 3-way component I have seen), Focal Access 165A3, Focal Polyglass 165 VR3

If anybody else knows of any other 3-way component systems (or the separate components which can be crossed over) to fill the 3-series positions Tweeter, 4" speaker cavity, and the underseat spot, please let me know. We should start some sort of list.

tres · 06-14-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

I am planning a similar upgrade my new BMW which has the basic professional HU. I have a sub for the trunk and a 4-channel PG amp.

My plan is to Upgrade the front part of the car to 3-way component systems, with 6.75" woofers under the seats (will require adapter plates). Power these, and maybe the rear deck speakers with my 4-channel PG amp. Put my sub in the trunk and power it with a PG mono sub amp.

Here is a link to someone else's post of a similar system (Morel with the addon 6.5 or 6.75" woofer) with links to lots of pics of the underseat adapter bracket:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76217

IMHO if you are putting a sub in the trunk you don't need the 8.5"s under the seats anymore, although it is not the best location for midranges.

Besides the Morel system, I have seen other 3-way possibilities (I don't know whether all the speakers fit or not):
Rockford Fosgate FNQ3146 (this may be out of production, can't find it on their website, but it is the cheapest 3-way component I have seen), Focal Access 165A3, Focal Polyglass 165 VR3

If anybody else knows of any other 3-way component systems (or the separate components which can be crossed over) to fill the 3-series positions Tweeter, 4" speaker cavity, and the underseat spot, please let me know. We should start some sort of list.

http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/auto/esotec/3way.php the midrange is 3 inches but could fit with alittle modification mb quart qsd 210 will fit but you will need a separate midbass drivers and they only make 6.5 inch woofers morel has great speakers also music quality is all about speakers and you get what you pay for

Quasimodem · 06-14-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tres

http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/auto/esotec/3way.php the midrange is 3 inches but could fit with alittle modification mb quart qsd 210 will fit but you will need a separate midbass drivers and they only make 6.5 inch woofers morel has great speakers also music quality is all about speakers and you get what you pay for

Great, thanks for the feedback.

VP Electricity · 06-14-2009, 02:34 PM

Quasimodo, you need more midbass sound up front than a 4" can provide. You don't want snare drums and bass guitar and male voices coming from behind you.

You also don't want them coming from under your butt. The Dynaudio speakers tres mentions are GREAT speakers, but Dynaudio would tell you not to put the 3" dome mid in the door and then the 8 under the seat. The dome can only play down to like 800 Hz - way too high to hand off to an underseat speaker.

The 4" (depending on how good they are) won't give you much output below 150-200 Hz, so the 8 can fill in that midbass hole up to 200 without making the voices, etc., sound as muffled as they would sound with the 8 going up to 800.

In my experience, you are better off with new 4" and tweeters, a trunk sub, all off new amps, and an OE 8" playing off the OE amp, than leaving the 8" out entirely.

06-10-2009, 03:05 PM	#1
strider New Member 1 Rep 6 Posts Drives: 330 e90 Join Date: May 2009 Location: nr. Manchester iTrader: (0)	upgrading audio Hello all, I am new to this forum as I have just moved over from an Audi A4 to a brilliant e90 330. The only thing I am disappointed with is the quality of the stereo. My Audi had the Bose system which was OK but my 330 has a professional head unit and (I think) 6 speaker setup which is terrible. I am going to replace the front door speakers with some infinity kappa 4" coaxial and I am looking to possibly fit a 4 channel phoenix gold amp that I already own. I have read the 'how to' guides by Gizze and azwillnj which are excellent but out of my budget. Could anyone please help me with some questions i have regarding fitting my amp? 1) Does the standard 6 speaker setup have an OEM amp, if so where is it located? 2) How do i connect my amp to the existing wiring? i think i should use 2 channels for front speakers and bridged the other 2 for subs 3) Will the OEM subs be able to take more power without blowing? 4) Anything else i may need to know, due to being quite new to hybrid audio upgrades? Thanks in advance. Strider
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06-10-2009, 08:05 PM	#2
amlebede Guest 36 Rep 611 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Chapel Hill, NC iTrader: (0)	1) Does the standard 6 speaker setup have an OEM amp, if so where is it located? 2) How do i connect my amp to the existing wiring? i think i should use 2 channels for front speakers and bridged the other 2 for subs 3) Will the OEM subs be able to take more power without blowing? 4) Anything else i may need to know, due to being quite new to hybrid audio upgrades? 1) The OEM amp is located in the trunk to the left under the plastic plate (you may have a CD changer on top too depending on options). 2) First of all, get a multi-channel amp. A 6 or 7 channel amp would be best since this is what most BMW amps use. The Logic 7 system is 7 channel I believe. To connect the aftermarket amp to an aftermarket amp, you will need either a line converter or a sound processor (it will flatten the frequencies, give you more flexibility, and may improve sound quality; however, it will cost you at least $100 extra). 3) Do not overpower any of the factory speakers (putting on +10 bass or treble is not good for your subs already). If you want more bass, add a trunk subwoofer or change out your underseat subwoofers (only subwoofers that come with any BMW). The woofers (aka midbass) is capable of reproducing some bass at the cost of losing other frequencies (they are also unable to hit low frequencies like a subwoofer would). 4) It seems that you may want to take out the whole OEM sound system and put something new if you are dissatisfied with it. That is the best way to go for it. If you are just lacking lows and highs, put in some tweeters and a subwoofer(s). __________________ 2006 Black BMW 330i, Black interior, ZSP, ZPP, Logic 7, Xenon, Ipod, Satellite Radio Preparation, Moonroof, 12'' 2 P2 subwoofers running on KAC-7204 amplifier, Hardwired Escort Passport 8500, Hardwired Garmin Nuvi 650 on Kuda Mount. tutor,math tutoring,math tutoring,test prep,tutoring jobs,tutoring blog
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06-11-2009, 06:51 AM	#4
fdiprete First Lieutenant 21 Rep 339 Posts Drives: 2014 512i xdrive Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NH iTrader: (2)	Another pro upgrade. I sense a reocurring theme. With Technic's help I upgraded my pro hifi setup to a hybrid with great improvement. saga is posted here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164359 Last edited by fdiprete; 06-11-2009 at 05:26 PM..
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06-11-2009, 09:49 AM	#5
VP Electricity Brigadier General 289 Rep 3,201 Posts Drives: F34 xDrive Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: portland oregon iTrader: (3)	ambelede, why don't you stop posting and keep reading? You really are not knowledgeable enough to answer most of these questions, but you keep trying.
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06-12-2009, 05:55 AM	#6
strider New Member 1 Rep 6 Posts Drives: 330 e90 Join Date: May 2009 Location: nr. Manchester iTrader: (0)	Thank you for your advise. I think I will go for a speaker upgrade first that look at fitting the amp at a later date. Are the rear shelf speakers 4" like the front ones? Is it possible to upgrade the 6.5" sub enclosures in my car to the 8" ones on the 'hifi' setup then fit the sws drivers? Cheers Strider
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06-13-2009, 07:04 AM	#8
fdiprete First Lieutenant 21 Rep 339 Posts Drives: 2014 512i xdrive Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NH iTrader: (2)	Techic, Do you think the blaupunkt is an option for his setup? (curious)
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06-13-2009, 02:40 PM	#10
strider New Member 1 Rep 6 Posts Drives: 330 e90 Join Date: May 2009 Location: nr. Manchester iTrader: (0)	Please tell me more about any options (blaupunkt??) . I may ebay the stuff i have to fund a feasable solution. is there any restrictions in depth of speakers i can use to replace the 4" in front and shelf?
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06-13-2009, 04:24 PM	#12
strider New Member 1 Rep 6 Posts Drives: 330 e90 Join Date: May 2009 Location: nr. Manchester iTrader: (0)	Ah, yes, sorry, the blaupunkt setup is a bit pricey. I like the Alpine setup, would the Alpine amp be able to power the sws-8's if i was to upgrade to them at a later date? Is it really not worth upgrading the rear shelf speakers? Thanks again for advice. Strider
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06-14-2009, 12:45 AM	#15
manuelpolaco Private First Class 13 Rep 112 Posts Drives: 335i 2009 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bayamon, PR, USA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 335i [0.00]	We should do a collection of all the post about audio system upgrade and place it in the DIY page for future generations.
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06-14-2009, 08:31 AM	#16
Quasimodem Colonel 149 Rep 2,383 Posts Drives: 335d Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: California iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 335d US [0.00]	I am planning a similar upgrade my new BMW which has the basic professional HU. I have a sub for the trunk and a 4-channel PG amp. My plan is to Upgrade the front part of the car to 3-way component systems, with 6.75" woofers under the seats (will require adapter plates). Power these, and maybe the rear deck speakers with my 4-channel PG amp. Put my sub in the trunk and power it with a PG mono sub amp. Here is a link to someone else's post of a similar system (Morel with the addon 6.5 or 6.75" woofer) with links to lots of pics of the underseat adapter bracket: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76217 IMHO if you are putting a sub in the trunk you don't need the 8.5"s under the seats anymore, although it is not the best location for midranges. Besides the Morel system, I have seen other 3-way possibilities (I don't know whether all the speakers fit or not): Rockford Fosgate FNQ3146 (this may be out of production, can't find it on their website, but it is the cheapest 3-way component I have seen), Focal Access 165A3, Focal Polyglass 165 VR3 If anybody else knows of any other 3-way component systems (or the separate components which can be crossed over) to fill the 3-series positions Tweeter, 4" speaker cavity, and the underseat spot, please let me know. We should start some sort of list.
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06-14-2009, 02:34 PM	#19
VP Electricity Brigadier General 289 Rep 3,201 Posts Drives: F34 xDrive Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: portland oregon iTrader: (3)	Quasimodo, you need more midbass sound up front than a 4" can provide. You don't want snare drums and bass guitar and male voices coming from behind you. You also don't want them coming from under your butt. The Dynaudio speakers tres mentions are GREAT speakers, but Dynaudio would tell you not to put the 3" dome mid in the door and then the 8 under the seat. The dome can only play down to like 800 Hz - way too high to hand off to an underseat speaker. The 4" (depending on how good they are) won't give you much output below 150-200 Hz, so the 8 can fill in that midbass hole up to 200 without making the voices, etc., sound as muffled as they would sound with the 8 going up to 800. In my experience, you are better off with new 4" and tweeters, a trunk sub, all off new amps, and an OE 8" playing off the OE amp, than leaving the 8" out entirely.
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