[tranquility]

I'm curious because we hear of crazy conspiracies and then we hear all types of data arguing pro and con but I just want to hear real-life anecdotes. Do you know of anyone as described in my thread title?

My relative is elderly (early 80s) but fit for his age, if you look at him, you'd think he's late 60s, anyway, no walker or any walking aids, etc. The way he described it, he just maybe got his foot caught on a little bump in the carpet or something minor like that, so that one can usually catch themselves and not get hurt - except in his case, once the initial fall happens, he suddenly lost any reaction functions, and as a result fell like he got tazed (I would imagine is a close enough analogy except he was conscious throughout), so he got hurt more than he should've: bruised chest, arms, etc. This happened 3 times in the past 12 months.

The crazy thing is that the doctors are absolutely clueless, supposedly did all the tests, scanned his brain, etc. So, no diagnosis and therefore no treatment advice either. Wth...

Anyway, just wondering if anyone knows anything. Or do we just chalk this up to old age, although he says that he should've been able to catch it or at least brace for the falls. He never had any falling history before this past year.

[M_Six]

That happened to my mother a several times. She always fell hard right on her face. I have pics of her looking like she went a round against Mike Tyson. First time was in a store parking lot. Second time was in a hallway that happened to have two cameras covering the hall way. There was a tiny area where neither camera had a good shot and that's exactly where she fell, so there was still no video of what happened. Both times she said her foot got caught on something, except the hallway was tile, so nothing to trip her up. She also fell several more time in her apartment, but there was good carpeting there, so she never suffered an injury. But she did have trouble getting off the floor a few times.

[floridaorange]

My Dad loses his balance and falls several times a year. He's 72. He's got numbness in his feet, and had a bunch of surgeries on his knees from playing football in college. He stopped trying to be physically fit 20 years ago, so it's no surprise. He's also 6'5 250 lbs, so when he falls, it's a big problem for my mom.

[Rich.Wolfson]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I'm curious because we hear of crazy conspiracies and then we hear all types of data arguing pro and con but I just want to hear real-life anecdotes. ....Anyway, just wondering if anyone knows anything. Or do we just chalk this up to old age, although he says that he should've been able to catch it or at least brace for the falls. He never had any falling history before this past year.

Not sure about crazy conspiracies concerning old age but I can tell you this for certain, your dad will not easily admit he is at all not the guy he was 20 years ago. When my father drove into the side of a Walgreen when he was parking he blamed the car and didn't want to hear it was his fault. And whenever he fell there was a hole or something else.

Note my father bought a new car the next day but no one would drive with him so it had very few miles before his grandson got it.

No conspiracy. Getting old is not for the young. Nothing is easy or good about it.

///Rich

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Rich.Wolfson

Not sure about crazy conspiracies concerning old age but I can tell you this for certain, your dad will not easily admit he is at all not the guy he was 20 years ago. When my father drove into the side of a Walgreen when he was parking he blamed the car and didn't want to hear it was his fault. And whenever he fell there was a hole or something else.

Note my father bought a new car the next day but no one would drive with him so it had very few miles before his grandson got it.

No conspiracy. Getting old is not for the young. Nothing is easy or good about it.

///Rich

Not my dad but actually my FIL. I know him well so he's not a klutz or anything remotely fragile, suffering from old age effects, etc.

Well, I just want to avoid the elephant in the room and not blame it on those Covid shots, so I'm asking for anecdotes. However, yes, it could still very well be old age and how it can rapidly hit a person no matter how strong the person was previously.

[Rich.Wolfson]

Originally Posted by tranquility

... I just want to avoid the elephant in the room and not blame it on those Covid shots.

Getting Covid over 65 and not being vaccinated and boosted for Covid can kill you. Sad that for many dying was avoidable.

Lots of things can kill you as you get older. Why not do what you can to better your odds?

Unless you don't believe in science or think there is a bogy man behind every tree. If that is the case, good luck.

///Rich

[wdb]

Oh for f**ks sake. "My dad fell, it must be that vaccine." I want some of what yer smokin' there d00d.

My dad fell a few times. Once when he was going for a walk along a sidewalk. Being an engineer by profession as well as inclination, he figured out why; he wasn't picking his feet up. It happens as folks age. They shuffle.

The other thing that happens at advanced age is that one can get seriously lightheaded when standing up. Not like the "rush" feeling we get when younger, more like passing out or nearly so. This one happened to my mom a couple of times.

Humans were not designed to live as long as modern medicine allows us to live. As we age our muscles and hearts don't work as well, etcetera and so on. No vaccine excuse necessary.

[tranquility]

I have no idea why there are such 'violent' reactions to this, why can't it be discussed calmly, as if this vaccine is so safe, so much so that Pfizer wanted to hide the results for 75 years, yet no one thinks it's a big deal. Like I said, I want to explore all possibilities but some ppl are just too damn flippant and dismissive.

[Rich.Wolfson]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I have no idea why there are such 'violent' reactions to this, why can't it be discussed calmly, as if this vaccine is so safe, so much so that Pfizer wanted to hide the results for 75 years, yet no one thinks it's a big deal. Like I said, I want to explore all possibilities but some ppl are just too damn flippant and dismissive.

Calm and collected.

The vaccines save lives and the Covid vaccine is 2.5 years old. If you knew someone with polio, you would run for the vaccine.

But it's your choice. The problem for me is that your choice adds to my insurance bill as it costs a lot of money before someone unvaccinated dies.

///Rich

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Rich.Wolfson

Calm and collected.

The vaccines save lives and the Covid vaccine is 2.5 years old. If you knew someone with polio, you would run for the vaccine.

But it's your choice. The problem for me is that your choice adds to my insurance bill as it costs a lot of money before someone unvaccinated dies.

///Rich

LOL @ the ridiculous insurance claim; I'm pretty sure I was much safer as I isolated myself vs you and virtually everyone else coming into contact w thousands of ppl during the same period. Right, cuz only unvaxxed ppl died and only they transmitted the virus. /s Ppl should really stop comparing this new vax to established ones like for the polio, etc. That's super-disingenuous for a multitude of reasons. Anyway, never thought I'd hear of closed-minded 'scientists' before these past few years, thought it was always an oxymoron. The difference here is that I'm open to all possibilities re the OP but you guys are 100% certain it's *not* the vax smh; and for the record, I didn't make such accusation and just want to get to the bottom of it via anecdotes as it is apparently a medical mystery, I'm very open to the possibility it could just well be rapid deterioration due to age, so who's the unscientific one here? Incredible many ppl really don't think about what they are saying and not realize there are some pretty big flaws in their way of thinking.

Anyway, let's just stick to anecdotes instead of arguing about the lousy vax issue: that's why I didn't bother to be explicit about it as evidently ppl are just too triggered for whatever silly reason.

[Rich.Wolfson]

Originally Posted by tranquility

...let's just stick to anecdotes instead of arguing about the lousy vax issue...

Anecdotes are not science.

Good luck and hopefully you will not run headlong into this or any other nasty virus.

///Rich

[RonronEG]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Incredible many ppl really don't think about what they are saying and not realize there are some pretty big flaws in their way of thinking.

That's got to be a troll from the person floating the idea the vaccine did this to your relative.

People have been falling and hurting themselves for generations. Literally 50% of all people over 80 will experience a fall. This is why the medical alert industry brings in over 6 BILLION DOLLARS in revenue annually (Help! I've fallen and can't get up!).

Spend your time doing something useful like helping your spouse do some fall prevention improvements in the home so next time it's not a broken hip.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Rich.Wolfson

Anecdotes are not science.

Good luck and hopefully you will not run headlong into this or any other nasty virus.

///Rich

Tx but I'm sure you heard of the saying that there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Anyway, good luck to you also.

Originally Posted by RonronEG

That's got to be a troll from the person floating the idea the vaccine did this to your relative.

People have been falling and hurting themselves for generations. Literally 50% of all people over 80 will experience a fall. This is why the medical alert industry brings in over 6 BILLION DOLLARS in revenue annually (Help! I've fallen and can't get up!).

Spend your time doing something useful like helping your spouse do some fall prevention improvements in the home so next time it's not a broken hip.

Ok, so 100% it's not the vax, you're so sure you can bet your life on it, nothing to talk about here, even though the drs couldn't say that it was due to old age, got it.

[MichaelB1969]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Tx but I'm sure you heard of the saying that there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Anyway, good luck to you also.




Ok, so 100% it's not the vax, you're so sure you can bet your life on it, nothing to talk about here, even though the drs couldn't say that it was due to old age, got it.

I don’t know about 100% but I can say that based on the fact that elderly people falling is extremely common, it’s certainly much, much more likely that this is the result of old age.

The shuffling comment is true, and falling is also often related to balance versus strength issues. Sometimes it’s not really shuffling but more that elderly folks don’t lift their feet as much and so they can catch more easily on things.

There are good exercises he could for both the foot issues and for balance. I’d check YouTube and you’ll find a bunch.

As for the vaccine, some people have certainly had dizziness as a symptom, which usually goes away in short order. Anything is possible, but again, in this case there is likely a more mundane cause. Especially if he’s not experiencing any dizziness.

[RonronEG]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Ok, so 100% it's not the vax, you're so sure you can bet your life on it, nothing to talk about here, even though the drs couldn't say that it was due to old age, got it.

The fact that the doctors ran the full gamut of tests and didn't find any abnormalities is all the confirmation you need that this is a result of old age.

Say the vaccine was the culprit- what did it do? Did it damage the vasculature in his lower body? Cause swelling along the spine weakening his leg strength? Caused plaque build up in the brain limiting his balance and motor control? The tests would've shown signs of this and you've confirmed 2x the tests were pristine.

What's troubling to me is that when people blindly blame the vaccine, they completely abandon not just science but all reality. You're posturing that the vaccine may have caused him to fall without any measurable or observable mechanism - that sounds like absolute magic.

Let me clarify- When the JJ was causing people to die the tests showed the blood clots. Doctors could see the platelete count abnormalities in blood work and observe the clots in imaging. They had evidence and eventually linked it to the specific vaccine. You don't have that.

Yeah it sucks getting old and seeing people you care about get hurt, age and, eventually die. Yeah it can be traumatic, yes it makes you think about your eventual demise. Yeah it'd be great if we could blame something else and believe we're always going to be ok. Unfortunately that's not the case. There are better ways to deal with it than abandoning reality chasing this vaccine unicorn.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by RonronEG

The fact that the doctors ran the full gamut of tests and didn't find any abnormalities is all the confirmation you need that this is a result of old age.

Say the vaccine was the culprit- what did it do? Did it damage the vasculature in his lower body? Cause swelling along the spine weakening his leg strength? Caused plaque build up in the brain limiting his balance and motor control? The tests would've shown signs of this and you've confirmed 2x the tests were pristine.

What's troubling to me is that when people blindly blame the vaccine, they completely abandon not just science but all reality. You're posturing that the vaccine may have caused him to fall without any measurable or observable mechanism - that sounds like absolute magic.

Let me clarify- When the JJ was causing people to die the tests showed the blood clots. Doctors could see the platelete count abnormalities in blood work and observe the clots in imaging. They had evidence and eventually linked it to the specific vaccine. You don't have that.

Yeah it sucks getting old and seeing people you care about get hurt, age and, eventually die. Yeah it can be traumatic, yes it makes you think about your eventual demise. Yeah it'd be great if we could blame something else and believe we're always going to be ok. Unfortunately that's not the case. There are better ways to deal with it than abandoning reality chasing this vaccine unicorn.

I appreciate your response but it's always the same for vehement obeyers of authority, I'm not assuming it's the vax, it's only a possibility, but I find it ridiculous that ppl can unequivocally say that it's not, refuse to ask any logical questions -which is the very essence of science- while by the same token accuse the person of being some conspirator/anti-vaxxer, whatever that silly blanket term is supposed to mean. Again, I'm NOT saying that it's most likely/probable, but merely it's possible and that is quite clear, big difference, and added to that if it was simply old age, you'd think all those doctors would say something to that effect but they just gave him a laughable "I dunno what the heck it is", like a scene outta Seinfeld when George visited that dr - that is a fact they did not say it's due to old age when that could've/should've been the easy answer/out for them. If it happened to your loved one, I would assume you would be going everywhere trying to figure out what the heck could be the cause(s).

[overcoil]

after I run and still outside in my running-shoes I stretch and do a lot of one-legged balancing poses.
recently it seemed my balance was off in that my duration for some of the one-legged stretches was unusually short.

it turned out to be the shoes. They were great for running but bad for balancing yoga-like.

I wonder with all kinds of wacky shoes promising al kinds of health benefits if that when transferring from shoes to barefoot or vice-versa the mans balance / muscle memory is askew. wonder if he got new shoes recently inline with the falling.

[Esteban]

I'll be 68 next month and my balance on one leg is not good no matter what shoe (or no shoe) I'm wearing. Been this way for a few years. I just figured it was because I'm getting older.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Caravaggio

after I run and still outside in my running-shoes I stretch and do a lot of one-legged balancing poses.
recently it seemed my balance was off in that my duration for some of the one-legged stretches was unusually short.

it turned out to be the shoes. They were great for running but bad for balancing yoga-like.

I wonder with all kinds of wacky shoes promising al kinds of health benefits if that when transferring from shoes to barefoot or vice-versa the mans balance / muscle memory is askew. wonder if he got new shoes recently inline with the falling.

Tx, that may be a possibility. I do remember one scary episode he was just standing by the foyer waiting to go out and he just collapsed, so not even moving to be able to trip over something. Maybe he just fainted due to some old age effects, I have no idea.

[MichaelB1969]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Tx, that may be a possibility. I do remember one scary episode he was just standing by the foyer waiting to go out and he just collapsed, so not even moving to be able to trip over something. Maybe he just fainted due to some old age effects, I have no idea.

This sounds like orthostatic hypotension, a form of low blood pressure that occurs after standing up from a seated (or lying) position. Can cause fainting. It's very common.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by MichaelB1969

This sounds like orthostatic hypotension, a form of low blood pressure that occurs after standing up from a seated (or lying) position. Can cause fainting. It's very common.

Yup, again, it may be that, but he didn't say anything about sitting, he was just standing there. Anyway, will need to remind him of this possibility.

[wdb]

Unbelieveable. This isn't a "help my dad stop falling" thread, it's a "convince me with complete certainty that a vaccine isn't causing it." That's too bad because it is a topic worthy of discussion. Unsubbing, have a blast.