[DecemberStorm]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...tion-compared/

interestingly they handed it to the alfa on "intangibles" after their own subpar-at-best experience of the car in the long term fleet

2nd Place:
BMW M3 Competition
Highs: Racetrack capability with autobahn composure, impressive grip and brakes, upscale interior.
Lows: Numb steering, palpable turbo lag, an overwhelming amount of adjustability.

1st Place:
Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio
Highs: Passion you can feel through the steering wheel, Italian design, linear power delivery.
Lows: Some cheap materials inside, knowing it might break your heart at any moment.

Also get to see their instrumented test on the comp g8x

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 112.5 in
Length: 189.1 in
Width: 74.3 in
Height: 56.4 in
Passenger Volume: 96 ft3
Trunk Volume: 13 ft3
Curb Weight: 3820 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 3.5 sec
100 mph: 7.6 sec
1/4-Mile: 11.6 sec @ 124 mph
130 mph: 12.8 sec
150 mph: 18.3 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.2 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.5 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 2.4 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 2.7 sec
Top Speed (mfr's claim): 180 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 150 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 297 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 1.03 g

[heavyD^2]

C&D has a bit of an agenda with BMW. Their dislike for the F3x/F8x has turned them into the automotive equivalent of a scorned lover. I will say at least they don't hide it as they even tell you where this is going to go early with this quote.

You see, the M3 and C/D, we go way back. Our love affair started in 1995 and burned hot for decades. But then, sometime in 2014, the passion fizzled. We called it quits, not necessarily because the M3 was a bad car, but because we felt it had become dull and cold to the touch.

They couldn't even finish the test because the Alfa broke down. Given this incident and the failures of their long term car I find this a bit of an irresponsible conclusion especially how in their previous issue (EV of the year) they heavily penalized the Model S for having a front motor failure during their testing and handed the title to the Mach E.

To get even closer to these sedans, we headed to Grattan Raceway's 2.0-mile road course, where the Quadrifoglio promptly melted down. We suspect improper bedding of the brake pads led the front set to disintegrate in seven laps, and Alfa—still investigating the incident—thinks that's a possibility. Fortunately, the loss of braking power ended without damage or too much drama. Could this incident be a harbinger of what a relationship might bring? Maybe, but those few laps were really something else.

So the worse performing car that couldn't finish the comparison because it makes a Jeep look bulletproof reliable in comparison wins? Okay.

[dialogical]

Two points:

1. The Alfa car is horribly unreliable.
2. The Alfa doesn't come with a stick.

That's literally all you need to know.

[XsltAnalyst]

we get it, CD prefers the alfa, cause they don't wanna upset the hand that feeds them free press cars.
I wonder how much Alfa is paying them. Slower car which can't handle few hot laps wins? WTF? It's not the first time either, their long term loaner 2018 alfa was riddled with problems.

I'm sure if they were buying one with their own money majority of them would pick the bimmer.

[Ginster6]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Two points:

1. The Alfa car is horribly unreliable.
2. The Alfa doesn't come with a stick.

That's literally all you need to know.

Point 1 is false.
Alfa has less TSB than BMW. My QV has 29k , zero problem. and it is tuned.

point 2 is true. That is why I sold QV.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

C&D has a bit of an agenda with BMW. Their dislike for the F3x/F8x has turned them into the automotive equivalent of a scorned lover. I will say at least they don't hide it as they even tell you where this is going to go early with this quote.

They couldn't even finish the test because the Alfa broke down. Given this incident and the failures of their long term car I find this a bit of an irresponsible conclusion especially how in their previous issue (EV of the year) they heavily penalized the Model S for having a front motor failure during their testing and handed the title to the Mach E.

So the worse performing car that couldn't finish the comparison because it makes a Jeep look bulletproof reliable in comparison wins? Okay.

Actually, they just described the F87 M2 CS as one of the best BMWs ever made.

[Multimodal]

[02M3ForMe]

My experience with Alfa reliability: 2 QVs I test drove flashed "Service Throttle Control" errors at me after spirited test drives and 1 QV test drive was rescheduled due to "misfires".

They hate the G8x looks, it doesn't matter how well it drives, they'll never pick it in a comparison test with anything reasonably close in performance. The best you can expect from them is a good score when the car is graded in isolation.

We now have a Ring time that speaks for itself. We know the car drives very well and performs at the top of its class; no more excuses about influencers/reviewers giving great reviews because of bias or a desire to maintain a relationship with BMW PR/marketing.

These subjective comparisons are worthless at this point, especially with the grille wildcard factor. Just go drive them both.

[My3rdM3]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

My experience with Alfa reliability: 2 QVs I test drove flashed "Service Throttle Control" errors at me after spirited test drives and 1 QV test drive was rescheduled due to "misfires".

They hate the G8x looks, it doesn't matter how well it drives, they'll never pick it in a comparison test with anything reasonably close in performance. The best you can expect from them is a good score when the car is graded in isolation.

We now have a Ring time that speaks for itself. We know the car drives very well and performs at the top of its class; no more excuses about influencers/reviewers giving great reviews because of bias or a desire to maintain a relationship with BMW PR/marketing.

These subjective comparisons are worthless at this point, especially with the grille wildcard factor. Just go drive them both.

Alfa did the ring in 7min 32 in a 6 year old chassis, on stock pirelli corsas, the new m4 did 7min 30 .78 on cup 2’s… these cars are very close… m4 is remarkable considering weight, Alfa is remarkable considering age and tech, wether we like it or not these 2 cars are very close competitors subjectively…

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by My3rdM3

Alfa did the ring in 7min 32 in a 6 year old chassis, on stock pirelli corsas, the new m4 did 7min 30 .78 on cup 2’s… these cars are very close… m4 is remarkable considering weight, Alfa is remarkable considering age and tech, wether we like it or not these 2 cars are very close competitors subjectively…

The Alfa time is factory, the M4 is Sport Auto (typically 3-7 seconds slower).

Still, the G8x is faster and cheaper and newer with significantly better reliability and dealer/manufacturer support ... yet C&D put it in 2nd place. Right.

Just live with each for a day. The Alfa is good, but there's a reason dealers were handing out 15-25% discounts on brand new ones before the supply chain issues.

[Multimodal]

I went to Craigslist to see what was out there for pre-owned AR Giulia QFs. I should not have been surprised to see this on the only listing. The frequency of issues with these cars is truly absurd.

[Gfit]

I have a 2018 Stelvio QV now with a 2022 M3 sitting at VPC for absolutely no reason. Lol . Anyway, been to the dealer once for an oil change. No other issues.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Ginster6

Point 1 is false.
Alfa has less TSB than BMW. My QV has 29k , zero problem. and it is tuned.

point 2 is true. That is why I sold QV.

What does TSB have to do with anything? Of course BMW has more TSB's as they have a hell of a lot more models for sale than Alfa. Reliability isn't judged by TSB's. Your experience with your car is anecdotal at best. I'm not hating on the car because when they are running right they are great cars. They just aren't very reliable as a whole.

Originally Posted by WWM3

Actually, they just described the F87 M2 CS as one of the best BMWs ever made.

Yep but they have always liked the M2 and their dislike is born from the last gen 3 series. To me it's very strange when a vehicle finishes last in all the performance metrics, doesn't finish the testing before breaking down ends up winning the comparison and that's not even counting their long term car which they fully know was a disaster of a car. I can't recall that ever happening and I'm a reader going back to the 80's. It just seems like they are still pouting because of the F8x.

[evilalien]

I knew somebody who had a QV that burst into flame and was replaced with an AMG. I won't go into the AMG side, because that is a very sad story.

That aside...

Passion you can feel through the steering wheel, Italian design

WTF does that even mean? What even is objectivity?

1st Place:
BMW M3 Competition
Highs: Engineering excellent you can feel through the steering wheel, German design, Racetrack capability with autobahn composure, impressive grip and brakes, upscale interior, consistently continues to work after you drive it, an overwhelming amount of adjustability
Lows: Numb ass from carbon buckets, it has turbos so there must be turbo lag right?, really expensive optional brakes that aren't even necessary and don't have an equivalent in the other car so why on earth are we testing these seriously WTF

...

5th Place:
Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio
Highs: It broke, burnt into flame, had it's engine replaced after a couple of hours, but at least it has a really ugly snout too
Lows: Gross I think I can feel C&D's passion on the steering wheel, Italian design, boring power delivery, some cheap materials inside, fun for a night but then you might need a doctor

[SeanWRT]

To favor the Alfa over the M3…easier to conclude as such writing a review than back it up with their own money…

[barryc365]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...bility-update/

I thought their hearts were broken after their 4 year road test had the car in the shop
For 14 months or did they forget?

The QV is an awesome car but there is a long love affair between petrol heads and Italian cars that feel 'alive' and have 'passion'. They are Gluttons for punishment!

As the poster above said, easy to write about a car that pulls on your heart strings but a very different proposition living with one on a daily basis, especially outside of warranty!

I actually considered a second hand one and decided on the G80 because I don't have time for repairs or crazy bills outside of warranty

[WWM3]

I don't think the logic that C&D is biased against the G8X because it didn't love the F80/F30 makes sense. They have written some very positive commentary on new BMWs, including the first drives on the G8X. The G20 had extremely positive reviews. Wouldn't they have wanted to extend their grudge to the new 3 series?

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

I went to Craigslist to see what was out there for pre-owned AR Giulia QFs. I should not have been surprised to see this on the only listing. The frequency of issues with these cars is truly absurd.

Not to be a Debbie downer, but there have been plenty of issues with the M series motors as well. You are showing an ad with a new motor for this particular Alpha and it's a known fact the reliability isn't the best. There is no doubt there are used F8X's for sale with the motor repaired from the crank hub. Just like mine was repaired. I would pick the Bimmer over the Alpha everyday. Just have to be honest about both cars

[bri1042]

Alfa reliability arguments and anecdotes always remind me of an argument two friends of mine had about Packard Bell computers in 1997 or 1998. For those of you who don't remember them, PB was the worst PC manufacturer during the rise of the home computer. They had a 32% first-year hardware failure rate, which was far worse than any other major company.

Terrible, right? Especially considering how expensive computers were back then. But - the other side of it is that 68% of PB customers DIDN'T have a failure in that first year...which is what caused the argument that I mentioned. One friend had bought two PB's had zero failures over time and, while a bit drunk, got quite upset at a perceived insult to his PC that he spent a lot of money on. He had a good experience, but if you were spending your hard-earned 3 grand on a PC, buying the PB was a bad bet compared to your other choices. The math was unquestionable, but he still felt that he was being insulted by the statistic.

My own anecdotal experience with test driving a QV - I did finally drive one in late 2019 after 3 attempts. The only Alfa dealer in the area is quite friendly and tried to let me drive their one QV that they had in stock twice in 2017 and 2018 (two different cars) and it didn't work out. The first one (white) wouldn't start. The second one (red) lit up like a christmas tree 500 feet from the dealership and I had to turn around and go back.

Loved the 2019 I drove. That engine is great. The chassis is great. But I couldn't buy it. I wasn't sure I could buy another auto, and when I asked about loaner cars if it broke, the nice sales fella pointed to three Fiat 500's they had sitting and told me that they were their only loaner cars (and if they were already out, they wouldn't be able to provide a loaner).

I still might have bought it if I was a multiple-car human, but I'm not. It was just the wrong bet for me.

[Murf]

9 people died testing the Alfa but we prefer it over the M3.

[Mako]

Yeah not sure how they can say Alfa won this given all the data. On steering feel alone? 😂

It's not amazing but it's not as horrible as CD always make it out to be.

As others have said if they were forced to buy one with their own money, it's most likely the BMW.

I am waiting to see the xdrive vs ? Review.
I guess only competitor would be the RS5 and it should run circles around that with the power difference.

[vj123]

I am clueless on how a vehicle which is unreliable in all of their tests can win the comparison.

Guess limited "available" drives gives ultimate pleasure and makes its really valuable.