P. Reader doesnt log high boost

Supramano · 02-11-2008, 07:52 AM

Hey, O-cha has mentioned this before and ive noticed this too, the prcede reader does not datalog boost spikes. I was driving around yesterday and noticed that when i downshift to 2nd or 3rd into a high rpm like 4000 and then gun it my defi gauge sometimes jumps to 16-18 psi....now i thought maybe the gauge was wrong, but the car hauls ass when this happens. When i do a run from 1st to 4th i dont see anything about 15psi maybe a boost spike after shifting gears where it jumps up to 15.5, but thats normal. When this started happeneing i ran home and got my laptop and did some datalogs. I tried to reproduce the same thing when downshifting and logged it when my gauge went to even 20psi!!! The reader still does not show me anything above 15.2. The only difference i saw in the datalog was that its was an increaing plateau going from 14.8-15.2...this ive never seen on a datalog...where the plateua actually increased steadily.
I really believe we can be overboosting, but the reader wont pick it up...i dont want to make any accusations, but is it possible they have the reader rigged so we dont see anything above 15.5 or seomthing. Just curious if anyones ever seen this on their datalogs....maybe my gauge is messed up who knows....lata

scalbert · 02-11-2008, 08:03 AM

The problem here is that the majority do not have an external boost gauge and will never be able to see this. But IMO, your Defi gauge is fine, there is increased manifold pressure over what the PROcede is returning.

midlife · 02-11-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

The problem here is that the majority do not have an external boost gauge and will never be able to see this. But IMO, your Defi gauge is fine, there is increased manifold pressure over what the PROcede is returning.

so for those with boost gauges that see unusually high boost spikes (say 16.5 +),
should they dial down their torque settings to where these boost guage spikes are say 15.75 or less?

what is your opinion?

thanks

scalbert · 02-11-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlife

so for those with boost gauges that see unusually high boost spikes (say 16.5 +),
should they dial down their torque settings to where these boost guage spikes are say 15.75 or less?

what is your opinion?

That is an option as it appears the spikes are lowered; but so is the entire curve.

Anther option would be to limit foot travel in the vunerables situations.

midlife · 02-11-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

That is an option as it appears the spikes are lowered; but so is the entire curve.

Anther option would be to limit foot travel in the vunerables situations.

the first scenario is safer but will lead to less power,
the second option - while making perfect sense - is not really a great way to enjoy the car.

this is definitely not the first time i have heard of this problem,
is shiv aware of this and is he on it?

i do not have a proceed, but i would not be happy after spending $1,500
and have this major worry over my head.

just my 2 cents

XLR8MF · 02-11-2008, 08:50 AM

If it is not reading is one thing but if it is "rigged" to not read high boost intentionally as you suggest then this would be very bad for Vishnu.

midlife · 02-11-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLR8MF

If it is not reading is one thing but if it is "rigged" to not read high boost intentionally as you suggest then this would be very bad for Vishnu.

eventually finding out if the proceed is rigged is one thing.

the actual problem is much worse..
IMO, thinking about how to best fix these spikes should be the main concern for now.

scalbert · 02-11-2008, 08:57 AM

It may very well be that the PROcede just does not see this occuring as the TMAP is on the other side of the throttle body.

XLR8MF · 02-11-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

It may very well be that the PROcede just does not see this occuring as the TMAP is on the other side of the throttle body.

That's a good point. Unfortunately many of us just datalog periodically to measure boost. If this is occurring it almost forces people to get a boost gauge.

e.n335 · 02-11-2008, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

It may very well be that the PROcede just does not see this occuring as the TMAP is on the other side of the throttle body.

Are you sure that the TMAP is on the other side of the throttle body and if so, why Shiv says the engine is not seeing the boost spikes ???

S*it - this has to be clarified asap. It basicly means that all of the guys not having a boost gauge have no idea what their boost really is ...

Not again

the PROcede

scalbert · 02-11-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLR8MF

That's a good point. Unfortunately many of us just datalog periodically to measure boost. If this is occurring it almost forces people to get a boost gauge.

I agree but IMO, a gauge is a must regardless...

midlife · 02-11-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

Are you sure that the TMAP is on the other side of the throttle body and if so, why Shiv says the engine is not seeing the boost spikes ???

S*it - this has to be clarified asap. It basicly means that all of the guys not having a boost gauge have no idea what their boost really is ...

Not again

the PROcede

is someone going to try to press shiv for an answer on this one?

scalbert · 02-11-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

Are you sure that the TMAP is on the other side of the throttle body and if so, why Shiv says the engine is not seeing the boost spikes ???

100% sure if you are using the diverter valve vacuum line as the source. This is taken from the intake manifold side of the TB. Whereas the TMAP is before the TB in the intake tract. This is why we can see vacuum on the gauges since it is in the manifold.

The spike not seen by the engine is the one on throttle close.

e.n335 · 02-11-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

100% sure if you are using the diverter valve vacuum line as the source. This is taken from the intake manifold side of the TB. Whereas the TMAP is before the TB in the intake tract. This is why we can see vacuum on the gauges since it is in the manifold.

The spike not seen by the engine is the one on throttle close.

This may be a noob question but why is this spike not seen by the engine ? We don't have valvetronic engines so the intake valves will open and the engine will see the spike ...

scalbert · 02-11-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

This may be a noob question but why is this spike not seen by the engine ? We don't have valvetronic engines so the intake valves will open and the engine will see the spike ...

I was referring to the throttle closure spike. Since the TB plate is closed, nothing is entering the manifold/engine.

e.n335 · 02-11-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlife

is someone going to try to nail down shiv on this one?

Shiv should chime in ... it may have something to do with the TMAP calibration, however, the datalogging values should be accurate.

Supramano · 02-11-2008, 09:52 AM

The thing is what im talking about is not even a spike....i have spikes and thats not what worries me...its when i downshift to mash on the throttle and i get consistent hard boost over 16psi.

Boost spikes hit when i shift gears under wot, thats fine....sometimes when i downshift when driving normally and my engine is nice and warm ready to go....i can see solid boost over 16-20 psi. This does not happen regularly, but i can reproduce it.... i was thinking of videotaping my gauge to show everyone. This boost comes out of left field and just charges the car down the road. Then i look at the reader and i still only have 14.8-15.2 psi. Im like how is this possible since you can def. feel the power difference. I hope shiv chimes in soon....my gauge is hooked up after the diverters but before the throttle body...so this means this is the boost going in correct....i remmeber o-cha saying the sensor for the procede is right after this...so this boost should show up...idk

e90AW335i · 02-11-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

I agree but IMO, a gauge is a must regardless...

+1

Any time you are going to up the boost on a FI car you should get a boost gauge, even if you keep it in your glove compartment....

XLR8MF · 02-11-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supramano

The thing is what im talking about is not even a spike....i have spikes and thats not what worries me...its when i downshift to mash on the throttle and i get consistent hard boost over 16psi.

Boost spikes hit when i shift gears under wot, thats fine....sometimes when i downshift when driving normally and my engine is nice and warm ready to go....i can see solid boost over 16-20 psi. This does not happen regularly, but i can reproduce it.... i was thinking of videotaping my gauge to show everyone. This boost comes out of left field and just charges the car down the road. Then i look at the reader and i still only have 14.8-15.2 psi. Im like how is this possible since you can def. feel the power difference. I hope shiv chimes in soon....my gauge is hooked up after the diverters but before the throttle body...so this means this is the boost going in correct....i remmeber o-cha saying the sensor for the procede is right after this...so this boost should show up...idk

Just curious, what ut settings are you seeing the 16+ boost at? If it's at default settings than this really sucks. Either way it does't sound good because in order to not harm the engine you would have to continue to lower your settings and that would lower that entire curve we love so much.

e.n335 · 02-11-2008, 10:04 AM

I have a boost gauge and I don't see such high boost ( at UT 90% ). BUT, there are still boost spikes with the PROcede V2 which can hurt the engine. This is frustrating for me ... I saw this as an early V2 map beta tester in autumn 2007 and removed the PROcede due to these issues.

@ Supramano: videotape your gauge to show this everyone, please.

e.n335 · 02-11-2008, 11:35 AM

If the position of the T-MAP sensor and throttle body is correct and the PROcede uses the T-MAP for boost pressure measurement, please explain why not every boost spike shown by the PROcede Reader is not seen by the engine as well.

e90AW335i · 02-11-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

If the position of the T-MAP sensor and throttle body is correct and the PROcede uses the T-MAP for boost pressure measurement, please explain why not every boost spike shown by the PROcede reader is shown to the engine as well.

Eugen, I thought they were saying every boost spike shown on the boost gauge is not shown to the engine....

02-11-2008, 07:52 AM	#1
Supramano Lieutenant 33 Rep 496 Posts Drives: 1995 BMW M3, 2008 335xi Sedan Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (1)	P. Reader doesnt log high boost Hey, O-cha has mentioned this before and ive noticed this too, the prcede reader does not datalog boost spikes. I was driving around yesterday and noticed that when i downshift to 2nd or 3rd into a high rpm like 4000 and then gun it my defi gauge sometimes jumps to 16-18 psi....now i thought maybe the gauge was wrong, but the car hauls ass when this happens. When i do a run from 1st to 4th i dont see anything about 15psi maybe a boost spike after shifting gears where it jumps up to 15.5, but thats normal. When this started happeneing i ran home and got my laptop and did some datalogs. I tried to reproduce the same thing when downshifting and logged it when my gauge went to even 20psi!!! The reader still does not show me anything above 15.2. The only difference i saw in the datalog was that its was an increaing plateau going from 14.8-15.2...this ive never seen on a datalog...where the plateua actually increased steadily. I really believe we can be overboosting, but the reader wont pick it up...i dont want to make any accusations, but is it possible they have the reader rigged so we dont see anything above 15.5 or seomthing. Just curious if anyones ever seen this on their datalogs....maybe my gauge is messed up who knows....lata __________________ Manny : 2008 335xi sedan : SG, Terra, Alum, 6mt, SPP, PP, 162s Mods; Procede V4 \| Remus Quads \| UR catless dps \| H&R coilovers \| Modified CDV \| Injen Intake \| Spearco IC \| Forge DVs \| Defi Boost Gauge w/controller \| Vorsteiner CF Hood + Front Lip \| OEM M-tech Body kit \| Hamann eyelids \| Predator Ice Angels \| 19" Volk Progressive Me's \| Rotora BBK \| 18" Rota Torques w/Blizzaks
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02-11-2008, 08:03 AM	#2
scalbert Major General 153 Rep 5,780 Posts Drives: '13 S4, '15 Q7 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Woodstock, GA iTrader: (8)	The problem here is that the majority do not have an external boost gauge and will never be able to see this. But IMO, your Defi gauge is fine, there is increased manifold pressure over what the PROcede is returning.
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02-11-2008, 08:50 AM	#6
XLR8MF Captain 27 Rep 631 Posts Drives: 335i sedan 2008 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mesa iTrader: (6)	If it is not reading is one thing but if it is "rigged" to not read high boost intentionally as you suggest then this would be very bad for Vishnu.
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02-11-2008, 08:57 AM	#8
scalbert Major General 153 Rep 5,780 Posts Drives: '13 S4, '15 Q7 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Woodstock, GA iTrader: (8)	It may very well be that the PROcede just does not see this occuring as the TMAP is on the other side of the throttle body.
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02-11-2008, 09:52 AM	#17
Supramano Lieutenant 33 Rep 496 Posts Drives: 1995 BMW M3, 2008 335xi Sedan Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (1)	The thing is what im talking about is not even a spike....i have spikes and thats not what worries me...its when i downshift to mash on the throttle and i get consistent hard boost over 16psi. Boost spikes hit when i shift gears under wot, thats fine....sometimes when i downshift when driving normally and my engine is nice and warm ready to go....i can see solid boost over 16-20 psi. This does not happen regularly, but i can reproduce it.... i was thinking of videotaping my gauge to show everyone. This boost comes out of left field and just charges the car down the road. Then i look at the reader and i still only have 14.8-15.2 psi. Im like how is this possible since you can def. feel the power difference. I hope shiv chimes in soon....my gauge is hooked up after the diverters but before the throttle body...so this means this is the boost going in correct....i remmeber o-cha saying the sensor for the procede is right after this...so this boost should show up...idk __________________ Manny : 2008 335xi sedan : SG, Terra, Alum, 6mt, SPP, PP, 162s Mods; Procede V4 \| Remus Quads \| UR catless dps \| H&R coilovers \| Modified CDV \| Injen Intake \| Spearco IC \| Forge DVs \| Defi Boost Gauge w/controller \| Vorsteiner CF Hood + Front Lip \| OEM M-tech Body kit \| Hamann eyelids \| Predator Ice Angels \| 19" Volk Progressive Me's \| Rotora BBK \| 18" Rota Torques w/Blizzaks
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02-11-2008, 10:04 AM	#20
e.n335 Moderator 273 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	I have a boost gauge and I don't see such high boost ( at UT 90% ). BUT, there are still boost spikes with the PROcede V2 which can hurt the engine. This is frustrating for me ... I saw this as an early V2 map beta tester in autumn 2007 and removed the PROcede due to these issues. @ Supramano: videotape your gauge to show this everyone, please.
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02-11-2008, 11:35 AM	#21
e.n335 Moderator 273 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	If the position of the T-MAP sensor and throttle body is correct and the PROcede uses the T-MAP for boost pressure measurement, please explain why not every boost spike shown by the PROcede Reader is not seen by the engine as well.
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