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      12-21-2020, 03:53 PM   #1
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Who is the greatest Team Boss in F1 of All Time

I saw this in Autosport and it was open to all motorsports but I wanted to limit it to F1. Who is the greatest F1 team boss in your august opinions? Please provide a bit of context and please name 2 others besides your top pick to spice things up a bit. I'll start:

1. Enzo Ferrari - The founder of The Scuderia has the most successful team in the history of the sport and had his priorities right: We sell road cars to fund our racing. You can't get much more dedicated than that.

2. Ron Dennis (Darth Ron) - Ron started in F1 as an apprentice at the age of 16 years old. He literally created the way serious garages are kept AROUND THE WORLD in a meticulous state. He was so fastidious that he made his mechanics put away all tools at the end of the day then unpack them again in the morning. All notes were to be kept on computer. No paper at any desks to ensure no data, no matter how seemingly trivial was lost. Brought Lewis Hamilton up from the ranks and gave him the opportunity to mold himself into the greatest driver of all time. Has a language named after him Ron-speak...Look it up. Not too shabby, Darth Ron!

3. Ross Brawn - Part of the team that won 5 WDCs in a row at Ferrari and did more of the day-to-day running than Todt. Saw the opportunity in Honda leaving the sport, purchased the team and resources from them for 1GBP, exploited the double diffuser rule to its fullest and sold the team to Mercedes for north of 100,000,000. Brought Niki Lauda and Toto Wolf on board and procured the services of HAM. One of the biggest masterstrokes in all of motorsports. Didn't like the way things were going and bailed. Now runs the sport. Not a bad career. I had the honor of meeting him and spending time with him in 2012. Great and VERY humble man. Was embarrassed at my recounting of his career brilliance.

Honorable Mentions: (in no particular order)
Frank Williams
Toto Wolff
Colin Chapman
Bernie Ecclestone
Ken Tyrrell

A disgrace to the sport:
Flabio Briatore
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      12-21-2020, 04:09 PM   #2
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Wowie!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I saw this in Autosport and it was open to all motorsports but I wanted to limit it to F1. Who is the greatest F1 team boss in your august opinions? Please provide a bit of context and please name 2 others besides your top pick to spice things up a bit. I'll start:

1. Enzo Ferrari - The founder of The Scuderia has the most successful team in the history of the sport and had his priorities right: We sell road cars to fund our racing. You can't get much more dedicated than that.

2. Ron Dennis (Darth Ron) - Ron started in F1 as an apprentice at the age of 16 years old. He literally created the way serious garages are kept AROUND THE WORLD in a meticulous state. He was so fastidious that he made his mechanics put away all tools at the end of the day then unpack them again in the morning. All notes were to be kept on computer. No paper at any desks to ensure no data, no matter how seemingly trivial was lost. Brought Lewis Hamilton up from the ranks and gave him the opportunity to mold himself into the greatest driver of all time. Has a language named after him Ron-speak...Look it up. Not too shabby, Darth Ron!

3. Ross Brawn - Part of the team that won 5 WDCs in a row at Ferrari and did more of the day-to-day running than Todt. Saw the opportunity in Honda leaving the sport, purchased the team and resources from them for 1GBP, exploited the double diffuser rule to its fullest and sold the team to Mercedes for north of 100,000,000. Brought Niki Lauda and Toto Wolf on board and procured the services of HAM. One of the biggest masterstrokes in all of motorsports. Didn't like the way things were going and bailed. Now runs the sport. Not a bad career. I had the honor of meeting him and spending time with him in 2012. Great and VERY humble man. Was embarrassed at my recounting of his career brilliance.

Honorable Mentions: (in no particular order)
Frank Williams
Toto Wolff
Colin Chapman
Bernie Ecclestone
Ken Tyrrell

A disgrace to the sport:
Flabio Briatore
Greetings MK -
LOVE your intentionally misspelled first name for the disgraced Briatore!
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      12-21-2020, 04:37 PM   #3
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Think about Alfred Neubauer ? long history of exceptional people.

Eddie Jordan was spectacular at detecting talent. What he says about Alain Prost is very interesting and really makes you think about the important parts of a drivers personality. What Jordan said about Andrea DeCesaris was not only kind but countered the opinions of many others.

Jordan seems very intelligent and he was never part of the obscene amount of money crowd. I vote Jordan as one of the really great F1 bosses.

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      12-21-2020, 04:50 PM   #4
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Brawn is surely the epitome of poacher turned gamekeeper...there was no small amount of cheating going on under his team leadership.
Can't take Jordan seriously myself.
Didn't really like the Williams/Head combo, they treated their drivers as a necessary inconvenience.
Chapman was quite the innovator but don't know that much else about him...similarly Enzo Ferrari they were both before my time.
Ron was surely on some spectrum...he did not handle his drivers at all well.

I guess I would go with Toto...he gets quite a lot of post race UK TV time and always comes across as a pretty decent person...plus his wife Suzy is very likable.
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      12-21-2020, 05:03 PM   #5
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CBE Colin Chapman's brilliance was quite two-edged....his mantra of "performance through lightweight" and "subtracting weight makes you faster" created a new standard for race cars, but also created potential death to the drivers.

The list of GP winning machines and teams is incredible. Lotus was one of the few F1 constructors that engineered, manufactured and sold high performance road cars.

His popularization of monocoque design and adoption of aerodynamics places Chapman and Lotus at the sharp end of design and innovation.
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      12-21-2020, 05:10 PM   #6
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No argument with the worthiness of those mentioned, but my top pick needs to be included..Mauro Forghieri - Ferrari's Technical Director. "Forghieri was involved to some degree in the development of every racing car produced by the Ferrari Factory between his hiring in 1960 and his departure in 1987." "Under his guidance Ferrari won the driver's F1 world championship title four times, with John Surtees (1964), Niki Lauda (1975 and 1977), and Jody Scheckter (1979)."...additionally...there were no rear wings...until his appeared (1968 Belgium GP).
Others not mentioned...but were amazing individuals in F1:
Ron Tauranac
Bruce McLaren
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      12-21-2020, 05:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
....his mantra of "performance through lightweight" and "subtracting weight makes you faster" created a new standard for race cars, but also created potential death to the drivers.
Bernie Ecclestone was Jochen Rindt's manager. Here he talks about his council to Jochen on his leaving Cooper to go where?...

"And I said to Jochen, 'If you want to win the World Championship you've got more chance with Lotus than with Brabham. If you want to stay alive you've got more chance with Brabham than with Lotus'. It wasn't a bad thing to say; it was a matter of fact. That was what the pattern was, for whatever reason: people did get killed in Lotuses. Maybe Colin (Chapman) took things to the edge a bit — and anyone who drove for Lotus was prepared to go along with that and take it to the edge. And Jochen was prepared to accept that.”

Later (concerned and scared ), Jochen wrote this letter to Chapman:
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      12-21-2020, 06:11 PM   #8
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Greetings 3798j
Wowie - Rindt's letter to Colin is speaking truth to this period of F1. BTW....where on earth did you find this letter? Was it on the internet? Jim Clark's F2 Lotus was the car he was driving when he went off-course and hit trees at 170 MPH. The cause of failure was never definitively determined but is believed to be a slowly deflating rear tire.
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      12-21-2020, 06:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
..where on earth did you find this letter? Was it on the internet?
Saw it first about 10 years ago...yes, on the internet. It comes up when discussions like this are opened up on racing forums.
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      12-22-2020, 04:00 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
The list of GP winning machines and teams is incredible. Lotus was one of the few F1 constructors that engineered, manufactured and sold high performance road cars.
Back in the day I owned an S3 Lotus Elan convertible. It was quite a revelation in handling after owning a Triumph TR6. But most surprising was the incredibly economical fuel consumption (40+ UK mpg).
It did feel like it weighed no more than a couple of Kellogg's cornflake boxes, so I guess that was part of it...but the engine was also quite a gem.
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      12-22-2020, 07:16 AM   #11
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for modern era.. no doubt.. Toto.. cause i havent seen a boss that this down to earth and human relations oriented.. and since he has finance and racing background as well.. its just perfect.. adapting, super hard worker and team player not you do i watch only type of boss.. harmony is the key for him probably.. and in his team Niki played a great role as well.. carrying a responsibility to make a Merc' 7 times champ in recent years is one of a kind.. so he is definitely among the best in F1 history.. authority is in great balance.. human relations superb.. media relations superb.. what else you d expect from a boss..

i really dont like the "horror" system in early Ferrari days and Enzo Ferrari's very conceited style but for its time and his methods somehow worked in some ways and built a brand that almost everyone on this earth loves.. he is one of the best.. but if you brought him and his system into todays world.. will it work.. not sure.. today its still has remnants of that but its more political in recent Ferrari history..

Ron Dennis is such a guy that probably really hard to communicate with at work.. or at least thats how it looks.. cause read in stories like he wants everyones desk neat and tidy and if you dont do it or forget it you re in trouble..

Eddie Jordan.. he is probably the most talkative and most showbiz bosses ever on the grid.. he wasnt talking that smart all the time but does it mean its really bad.. in EJ's case no cause it somehow worked.. and with Frentzen things were working not that bad.. and he didnt leave wreck behind.. he established an F1 team from 0 and lets not forget his team's root less or more is Racing Point now..

i spent some of my early childhood with Mansell's Williams it was great fun but cant say i know Frank Williams that much.. and im not sure he wanted to open himself that much as well..
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      12-22-2020, 07:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
Think about Alfred Neubauer ? long history of exceptional people.

Eddie Jordan was spectacular at detecting talent. What he says about Alain Prost is very interesting and really makes you think about the important parts of a drivers personality. What Jordan said about Andrea DeCesaris was not only kind but countered the opinions of many others.

Jordan seems very intelligent and he was never part of the obscene amount of money crowd. I vote Jordan as one ion the really great F1 bosses.
Great call on this.

Jordan is one of my brother's fav TPs. And your mention of his words about DeCesaris is spot on. I remember him getting a VERY hard time and being called DeCrasheris but people, including myself at that time forgot, he was only 19 years old when he started in F1. He was the original prodigy and lightening fast on his day. Since then I've always had a soft spot in my heart for drivers such as Grojean and Trulli...lightening fast over one lap but couldn't put it together for a good race result on a consistent basis.
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      12-22-2020, 08:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3798j View Post
Saw it first about 10 years ago...yes, on the internet. It comes up when discussions like this are opened up on racing forums.
Great post and thanks for the letter. It still comes up in forums and as I stated in the OP, I saw it on Autosport. Below is a post on Chapman. It is unkind, to say the least. But this is the passion generated by F1.

It seems that the post was removed before I could put it up but the words homicidal, murderous, psychopath and maniac were used.
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      12-22-2020, 09:04 AM   #14
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Do any of you remember when after the GP was over and Sunday evening had fallen that Eddie Jordan and his band would perform live in the paddock??

Jordan loves rock and roll music, and he plays the drums. Until 2007, his band's name was V10. A cut-down version of the band is currently gigging at various venues around the world under the name of "Eddie & The Robbers". Jordan is a fan of Celtic, Coventry City and Chelsea and has been linked with takeover bids for Coventry. Jordan is also a Celtic shareholder. Jordan's other sporting interests include golf and horse racing; he has horses in training with Mouse Morris.

He has several other companies still owned partly or wholly by himself, including the vodka brand Vodka V10 and the energy drink brand EJ-10 and Bulgarian property company Madara Capital, that develop Karadere beach, where he was also a director. Jordan is a patron of the child cancer charity CLIC Sargent. a supporter of the Conservative Party and a member of both the Royal Dublin Golf Club and the Royal Cork Yacht Club. Jordan published an autobiography, "An Independent Man", in May 2007.
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      12-22-2020, 09:16 AM   #15
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At the risk of going a bit off-topic, I must post the pic of my most fav GP machine image of all time (for me)....

Jordan GP:

Name:  Jordan GP F1 Machine.jpg
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Size:  115.2 KB
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      12-22-2020, 09:55 AM   #16
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I think if we are doing fav F1 cars then it has to be the JPS livery.

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      12-22-2020, 10:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post

Jordan seems very intelligent and he was never part of the obscene amount of money crowd. I vote Jordan as one of the really great F1 bosses.
What I meant about the "obscene amount of money crowd" is that he wasn't poaching drivers from other teams with fabulous salaries or even the promise of world championships.
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      12-22-2020, 10:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I think if we are doing fav F1 cars then it has to be the JPS livery.

Absolutely. Anything else can only be #2.
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      12-22-2020, 11:14 AM   #19
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I was the Director of Engineering at the Four Seasons Olympic Hotel in Seattle for twelve years, a grande dame incredible hotel built in 1924. I'll never forget that for a period of 3-4 days, the hotel's iconic porte cochere's motor entrance was graced with the JPS Lotus F1 machine driven by Mario Andretti....I can't recall the link to the machine being staged there (it must have been related to a group business or an event at the hotel), but I recall spending too much time with my knees pressed against the velvet stanchion ropes and straining to stare at every inch of the black beauty.
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      12-22-2020, 11:22 AM   #20
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W.O.W. I have no words.

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Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
I was the Director of Engineering at the Four Seasons Olympic Hotel in Seattle for twelve years, a grande dame incredible hotel built in 1924. I'll never forget that for a period of 3-4 days, the hotel's iconic porte cochere's motor entrance was graced with the JPS Lotus F1 machine driven by Mario Andretti....I can't recall the link to the machine being staged there (it must have been related to a group business or an event at the hotel), but I recall spending too much time with my knees pressed against the velvet stanchion ropes and straining to stare at every inch of the black beauty.
It's official. I now, can't stand you!!
I'm so jealous!!!!!

Seriously, that is an absolutely stellar memory!! It must have drawn crowds whenever groups of people approached!!

Seeing these machines, especially the older ones, gives you real respect for the drivers. The good take-away from the Romain Grojean situation is that all of the idiots who say the racing was too homogenized and safe got to see how absolutely wrong they were. It is safER. The second you put ANY car on a race track with the objective of extracting maximum performance while dive-bombing your opponents, all semblance of safety departs the venue.

GREAT POST, Bruce!!

Thanks for sharing!!
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Sir 7ewis, 7X FIA Formula One World Championship, World Driving Champion. 100 Wins. 101 Pole Positions. 54 Fastest Laps. Actual Rain Master. Leave me to it, Bono. One Race Win in each of his 15 years in F1. Most Laps Led in Formula One. The Centurion.
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      12-22-2020, 12:08 PM   #21
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Talking about the cars, that photo of Forghieri kneeling by Surtees his Ferrari 158 is a pretty rare one. Ferrari has only raced in two F1 races where the cars weren't painted red (1964's USGP & Mexican GP). Here's the story...and not surprisingly, it tells of an angry Enzo:

"It was the year 1964 and only two races remained on the calendar. Ferrari’s John Surtees was involved in a championship fight. But team owner Enzo Ferrari was involved in a bigger tussle.
Ferrari wanted 250 LM be homologated for racing as a Group 3 Grand Touring Car (as opposed to prototype). However in April 1964 the FIA refused to do so as Ferrari had built considerably fewer than the required 100 unit. To be considered as a production car it was necessary to produce 100 units for a car .
If that drew Enzo’s anger, the ACI’s (Italy’s national motorsport body) decision to not back Ferrari in the argument sent him into frenzy.
He handed in his competitor’s licence, and promised never to race in red again. Visually at least, Enzo was severing the ties between Ferrari and Italy."

For the following '65 season the cars took to the grid painted red again.
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      12-22-2020, 12:34 PM   #22
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Greetings MK -
LOVE your intentionally misspelled first name for the disgraced Briatore!
This one was put up in another forum.

This is a bad as my medical posts. Mods, if it is out of bounds, please remove.

Joekerr cmyx6go UncleWede 1MOREMOD pennsiveguy

I'll show myself out now.
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Sir 7ewis, 7X FIA Formula One World Championship, World Driving Champion. 100 Wins. 101 Pole Positions. 54 Fastest Laps. Actual Rain Master. Leave me to it, Bono. One Race Win in each of his 15 years in F1. Most Laps Led in Formula One. The Centurion.
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