BMW E46 M3 - Legend Eternal
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-18-2021, 08:59 PM   #287
Soporcogitavi
New Member
18
Rep
19
Posts

Drives: 2020 Mercedes C43
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Narnia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverSteve View Post
Great post. Actually though, I've not seen "M-Sport" on anything. It's either a car marked M - or it's not. An M40i or M50i isn't marked "sport" anywhere I've seen. It's an M40i, M50i.... For some reason nay-sayers seem to think it has something to do with aero add-ons - and it doesn't. It has to do with all the M performance upgrades which is all that makes an M, an M. Some (M50i) have a few less M features and some (M5, M7...) have more. It's only a "thing" because some make it a thing. When they stop with the negativity, the thread will die. Until the next one. ..............
Of course it's not marked sport, I was referring to the M versions between base models and Full M. M Performance may be the better and more appropriate term as you pointed out, but you get what I mean. And absolutely agreed, the M is much more than just Aero add ons.
Appreciate 1
      10-18-2021, 09:08 PM   #288
LakeSurfer
Captain
United_States
819
Rep
684
Posts

Drives: bicycle
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

I'm not a bmw fan I just wanted a V8, manual, hard top convertible and the only one that met my criteria happens to be an e93 M3. By many standards it's not a "true" "m" car. Ok, whatever. Are my feelings hurt, lol, no. Do you feel better? I hope so.

That being said. I was told that M cars came about due to the races and race rules BMW was involved in. In order for them to race the car they had to have it in production and produce a certain amount of cars for the public. So BMW said fine, we don't want to deal with it but the big wig did and they said ok you can have your toy but keep it out of our hair, here's the car you get to use, do what you want and let us know if you wanna have lunch or something. Fast forward and the rules changed or loosened up and the M cars were a little more popular than BMW expected so they became more involved and started to have more lunches and dinners and maybe even a few one night stands with the M brand. Now they're in a full fledged dysfunctional marriage fighting over who does more laundry than the other one. M took off and merged into the main brand of BMW. And now we get watered down cats that are sort of race cars but designated for soccer moms and snotty middle aged men.

If this is true and I don't know if it is but I'm sure someone will correct me and belittle me for not caring or knowing what I'm talking about then none of us have TRUE M cars. unless you have one of the OG race cars, do you? Then you just have a car with a few cool features and a little logo on the trunk with 3 very cool contrasting colors.

M sport, CSL, fender flairs, humps on the hood, whatever, all you have is a car with a logo, no heritage or history just marketing lead by bean counters who are all just wanting to make a profit.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 09:42 AM   #289
wtwo3
Major General
wtwo3's Avatar
17882
Rep
5,463
Posts

Drives: 23 X7 40i; 23 M3; 24 cooper s
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I'm curious to see impact on sales from the badge usage. Like has slapping m badging on non-m cars increased sales for the non m cars and/or has it cannibalized sales of m cars. Granted it's hard to capture that since there's multiple factors that have impacts on sales.

Between BMW, Audi and Mercedes, I feel like Audi has the best delineation (S vs. RS). BMW comes in 2nd with m340i vs. m3 etc. Mercedes on the other hand has sort of shot themselves in the foot. C43 amg has the same naming convention as the full blown C63 amg.
__________________
2023 BMW X7 xDrive40i
2023 BMW M3 6MT
2024 Mini Cooper S Convertible

'20 BMW m340i... '20 BMW X5 40i... '16 Infiniti Q50 RS 400... '10 Lexus RX 350... '08 Lexus IS 350... '00 Nissan Maxima... '93 Nissan Maxima
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 10:32 AM   #290
DenverSteve
Lieutenant
DenverSteve's Avatar
965
Rep
537
Posts

Drives: 2021 BMW
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Denver / L.A.

iTrader: (0)

Unfortunately, your logic is flawed. BMW only puts in badges on I am variants.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 03:43 PM   #291
wtwo3
Major General
wtwo3's Avatar
17882
Rep
5,463
Posts

Drives: 23 X7 40i; 23 M3; 24 cooper s
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverSteve View Post
Unfortunately, your logic is flawed. BMW only puts in badges on I am variants.
The logic is sound.... but it seems like you're focusing on semantics.

To make you happy, how about I rephrase:

I'm curious to see the impact and relationship of sales between m340i vs. m3 (and other segments like m550i vs. m5, x3m40i vs. x3m, etc) in comparison to days when the m badge was reserved for the m3/m5/m6 etc only, and the 340i/550i/650i were without the "m" before the model name.
__________________
2023 BMW X7 xDrive40i
2023 BMW M3 6MT
2024 Mini Cooper S Convertible

'20 BMW m340i... '20 BMW X5 40i... '16 Infiniti Q50 RS 400... '10 Lexus RX 350... '08 Lexus IS 350... '00 Nissan Maxima... '93 Nissan Maxima
Appreciate 1
bobowar1353479.00
      10-19-2021, 04:28 PM   #292
TAZ007
Colonel
TAZ007's Avatar
1845
Rep
2,760
Posts

Drives: 2021 Z4 M40
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 Z4 M40  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
The logic is sound.... but it seems like you're focusing on semantics.

To make you happy, how about I rephrase:

I'm curious to see the impact and relationship of sales between m340i vs. m3 (and other segments like m550i vs. m5, x3m40i vs. x3m, etc) in comparison to days when the m badge was reserved for the m3/m5/m6 etc only, and the 340i/550i/650i were without the "m" before the model name.
In other words, a comparison between M performance cars vs M cars.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 04:34 PM   #293
wtwo3
Major General
wtwo3's Avatar
17882
Rep
5,463
Posts

Drives: 23 X7 40i; 23 M3; 24 cooper s
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ007 View Post
In other words, a comparison between M performance cars vs M cars.
Yes... but shhhh.... that seems to upset people.

The point here is, there's obviously a difference between an m340i and an m3. The m340i was formerly the 340i. The M3 was formerly.... the M3. My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.
__________________
2023 BMW X7 xDrive40i
2023 BMW M3 6MT
2024 Mini Cooper S Convertible

'20 BMW m340i... '20 BMW X5 40i... '16 Infiniti Q50 RS 400... '10 Lexus RX 350... '08 Lexus IS 350... '00 Nissan Maxima... '93 Nissan Maxima
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 05:30 PM   #294
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.
I simply see it as "choice". Not everyone wants the M3, the middle ground is a definite market place. Evident by quite a few users who chose to have the performance packages added to the F30 340i.

Better to have an M-Lite from the factory? I suggest it is, for many users. BMW also appear to think so.
Appreciate 1
wtwo317882.00
      10-19-2021, 06:44 PM   #295
wtwo3
Major General
wtwo3's Avatar
17882
Rep
5,463
Posts

Drives: 23 X7 40i; 23 M3; 24 cooper s
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I simply see it as "choice". Not everyone wants the M3, the middle ground is a definite market place. Evident by quite a few users who chose to have the performance packages added to the F30 340i.

Better to have an M-Lite from the factory? I suggest it is, for many users. BMW also appear to think so.
Yeah so that begs the question.... is the m30i stealing sales away from the G80 M3 compared to the 340i vs. the F80 M3?

Doesn't help that the design of the G80 is wildly different from the G20.. which is why this'll probably remain a rhetorical question
__________________
2023 BMW X7 xDrive40i
2023 BMW M3 6MT
2024 Mini Cooper S Convertible

'20 BMW m340i... '20 BMW X5 40i... '16 Infiniti Q50 RS 400... '10 Lexus RX 350... '08 Lexus IS 350... '00 Nissan Maxima... '93 Nissan Maxima
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 08:41 PM   #296
TAZ007
Colonel
TAZ007's Avatar
1845
Rep
2,760
Posts

Drives: 2021 Z4 M40
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 Z4 M40  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Yes... but shhhh.... that seems to upset people.

The point here is, there's obviously a difference between an m340i and an m3. The m340i was formerly the 340i. The M3 was formerly.... the M3. My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.
Ok, but it is the trickle down effect.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 04:49 AM   #297
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Yeah so that begs the question.... is the m30i stealing sales away from the G80 M3 compared to the 340i vs. the F80 M3?

Doesn't help that the design of the G80 is wildly different from the G20.. which is why this'll probably remain a rhetorical question
I'm sure BMW know what they are doing, they'll have their profit margins worked out, which ever model they sell.

Could mean the M-cars are more exclusive... a good thing?
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 09:40 AM   #298
bobowar135
Second Lieutenant
bobowar135's Avatar
Australia
3479
Rep
208
Posts

Drives: 08' Sedona Red 135i
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Broken down again

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I'm sure BMW know what they are doing, they'll have their profit margins worked out, which ever model they sell.

Could mean the M-cars are more exclusive... a good thing?
It could also mean that the M cars are less desireable because people can buy an M-badged car for less than a true M car.
What BMW are doing may be good for their bottom line but I believe that they are diluting the M brand by slapping M badges on cars willy-nilly.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 09:41 AM   #299
Chihuahua
Brigadier General
Chihuahua's Avatar
4011
Rep
3,171
Posts

Drives: E30 329iS, E65 Alpina B7
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Wow, 14 pages of this? This thread has serious legs.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 09:42 AM   #300
TAZ007
Colonel
TAZ007's Avatar
1845
Rep
2,760
Posts

Drives: 2021 Z4 M40
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 Z4 M40  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chihuahua View Post
Wow, 14 pages of this? This thread has serious legs.
And they must be stretched from time to time.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 09:51 AM   #301
Soporcogitavi
New Member
18
Rep
19
Posts

Drives: 2020 Mercedes C43
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Narnia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobowar135 View Post
It could also mean that the M cars are less desireable because people can buy an M-badged car for less than a true M car.
What BMW are doing may be good for their bottom line but I believe that they are diluting the M brand by slapping M badges on cars willy-nilly.
"Slapping M badges on cars"? Most of these cars with "slapped on M badges" are hitting 0-60 in 4 secs, have sport tuned suspension and are producing close 400hp, not to mention they are handily out performing previous "pure M" models. If that's not worthy of an M badge not sure what is.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 09:53 AM   #302
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

M cars are not all about horsepower and performance, there's more to a car than 0-60...

Most modern cars are outperforming older performance vehicles. Engine technology and tires have become more advanced every year. Hell a Nissan Altima outperformed a G20 330i on Car and Driver's skidpad and a new Accord is faster than an E30 M3, doesn't make either car a proper sports sedan.
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 2
bobowar1353479.00
six75LT916.50
      10-20-2021, 09:55 AM   #303
Soporcogitavi
New Member
18
Rep
19
Posts

Drives: 2020 Mercedes C43
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Narnia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
M cars are not all about horsepower and performance, there's more to a car than 0-60...
Have you driven the M340i? That car isn't just about HP, it offers so much more. That's just one example amongst many (m440i, m550i, etc).
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 09:56 AM   #304
Chihuahua
Brigadier General
Chihuahua's Avatar
4011
Rep
3,171
Posts

Drives: E30 329iS, E65 Alpina B7
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
...a new Accord is faster than an E30 M3, doesn't make either car a proper sports sedan.
Very true. Does this now mean that a Honda Accord also counts as an M car?

Discuss.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 09:58 AM   #305
Soporcogitavi
New Member
18
Rep
19
Posts

Drives: 2020 Mercedes C43
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Narnia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
M cars are not all about horsepower and performance, there's more to a car than 0-60...

Most modern cars are outperforming older performance vehicles. Engine technology and tires have become more advanced every year. Hell a Nissan Altima outperformed a G20 330i on Car and Driver's skidpad and a new Accord is faster than an E30 M3, doesn't make either car a proper sports sedan.
Do you consider your CLS 53 a proper sports sedan, even though it's not a 63? I'm playing Devils advocate of course. Proper sports sedan to you is dependent on your definition. Anyone who claims the M badged (m340, m440, m550) cars are not proper sports sedans are disconnected.

Last edited by Soporcogitavi; 10-20-2021 at 10:04 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 10:00 AM   #306
D22M2
Captain
1368
Rep
788
Posts

Drives: Not a real M Car
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Dublin , CA

iTrader: (0)

Only d**kholes care about sh*t like this
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 10:02 AM   #307
Soporcogitavi
New Member
18
Rep
19
Posts

Drives: 2020 Mercedes C43
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Narnia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by D22M2 View Post
Only d**kholes care about sh*t like this
I would have to agree with you. I'm not sure what's with the hate towards "non real M cars"

Silliness.
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2021, 10:05 AM   #308
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soporcogitavi View Post
Have you driven the M340i? That car isn't just about HP, it offers so much more. That's just one example amongst many (m440i, m550i, etc).
Yes, I even made a whole review on here when the car first came out. I have also extensively driven the M550i (which was incredibly disappointing). It had the same boring chassis as my 540i just with a better engine. Like I said for the M340i in other threads, its a great car, but I don't consider it an M vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soporcogitavi View Post
Do you consider your CLS 53 a proper sports sedan, even though it's not a 63?
I consider it a luxury vehicle with some sporty handling and characteristics, which is why I got it. I don't consider it an AMG though and have even de-badged the AMG badging on the rear of the car.
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 1
bobowar1353479.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 AM.




e46m3
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST