BMW E46 M3 - Legend Eternal
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-02-2021, 06:41 PM   #89
DanG
Major General
DanG's Avatar
United_States
10444
Rep
6,878
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2 AW DCT
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [7.68]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Big brakes are of course a performance option.

In my view, 'M cars' should have a specific set of performance features:

- (semi) floating disc brakes
- LSD
- controversial one: S designated performance engine.

That last one is very controversial. Because the 1M, imho one of the greatest M cars, has an N54 engine.
Also, the difference between S and M/N/B engines gets smaller and smaller.
And M sport cars (m240i etc) are more and more available with proper LSD's (torque vectoring)
They also get better and better brakes, although they still don't have semi floating rotors I believe.

My N55 M2 is a real M car. The engine has upgrades that the M235i didn’t have. It is in the same class as the N54 1M.
Appreciate 0
      04-02-2021, 06:41 PM   #90
blackbird_f32
Shima Tatsuya
blackbird_f32's Avatar
45
Rep
61
Posts

Drives: F32 435i Msport
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Las vegas

iTrader: (0)

No, they are not. But the older m cars get walked by most new m sport cars anyway.
__________________
Current:'15 BSM F32 435i Msport, FBO, BM3 stg 2
Previous: E36 328i->F30 320i->F32 428i
IG: Blackbird_f32
Appreciate 1
540iSUP703.00
      04-02-2021, 07:32 PM   #91
JustinHEMI
Not great. Not terrible
JustinHEMI's Avatar
7406
Rep
2,694
Posts

Drives: 2024 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Lebanon, TN

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by para38super View Post
I would never remove them. I also own Challenger. Would I remove RT or SRT because I don't have the hellcat engine, definitely not. Dodge labels them depending on the specs. Nobody complains about a Durango having the badge. I guess Dodge guys are not as uptight about a badge.

Oh no, they are. I came from that world to this world. You should see the purse swinging that ensues when a scat pack owner asks if his car is an "SRT" since it says "powered by SRT" on the engine cover. LoL
__________________
Current: 2024 BMW X3 M40i.
Ordered: 2025 BMW Z4 M40i manual, Thundernight metallic, magma red interior, 19/20" wheels, premium/shadowline/driving assistant packages, HK sound.
Appreciate 0
      04-02-2021, 11:05 PM   #92
para38super
New Member
17
Rep
8
Posts

Drives: BMW 6 SPEED MANUAL
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
Oh no, they are. I came from that world to this world. You should see the purse swinging that ensues when a scat pack owner asks if his car is an "SRT" since it says "powered by SRT" on the engine cover. LoL
Good call! I forgot about the scat pack! Those poor guys get it just as bad! I stand corrected... Lol
Appreciate 1
JustinHEMI7405.50
      04-03-2021, 12:07 AM   #93
RugbyBro
Brigadier General
RugbyBro's Avatar
7574
Rep
3,596
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Who cares what’s an M car or not - BMW clearly doesn’t, so we all shouldn’t either. If someone with a F32 wants to slap on a M badge or someone buys a M40i, then they can have at it - doesn’t bother me cause at the end of the day I bought my car for S55, DCT, and the unique chassis... not cause of a badge. In fact, the most offended person I ever ran into was the finance guy when I bought the car after trying to convince me that M cars are such unicorns and if I didn’t buy the extended warranty the car would ruin me financially with items like $5,000 brakes... to which I flat out told him “it’s JUST a car” and quoted the actual price of rotors/pads off FCP euro
__________________
Current: F80
Prior: F82, F32
Appreciate 3
Vivek.1363.50
Fined243.00
      04-03-2021, 08:10 AM   #94
Jcoop901
Southern Fried
Jcoop901's Avatar
United_States
137
Rep
138
Posts

Drives: BMW M240i
Join Date: May 2020
Location: TN

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 BMW M240i  [0.00]
Appreciate 5
ramman434710.00
Vivek.1363.50
b0lzen64.50
540iSUP703.00
Merlin_83471.00
      04-03-2021, 10:00 AM   #95
dscabra
First Lieutenant
dscabra's Avatar
4945
Rep
378
Posts

Drives: GMC Denali
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Who cares what’s an M car or not - BMW clearly doesn’t, so we all shouldn’t either. If someone with a F32 wants to slap on a M badge or someone buys a M40i, then they can have at it - doesn’t bother me cause at the end of the day I bought my car for S55, DCT, and the unique chassis... not cause of a badge. In fact, the most offended person I ever ran into was the finance guy when I bought the car after trying to convince me that M cars are such unicorns and if I didn’t buy the extended warranty the car would ruin me financially with items like $5,000 brakes... to which I flat out told him “it’s JUST a car” and quoted the actual price of rotors/pads off FCP euro
Same experience when the dealership tried to sell me the maintenance package on my used G30. The look on they guy's face when I said I do my own maintenance was priceless. The pitch continued until I showed him this picture of the car I built in my shop and asked him if he felt that changing the oil on the BMW would be more difficult than building a car.



Or if servicing the //M brakes were any different than servicing these (aside from unplugging and plugging in new wear sensors):



At least on the BMW you don't need to assemble and safety wire the rotors, or maybe you do on a "real" //M? Parts is parts!

Last edited by dscabra; 04-04-2021 at 11:53 AM..
Appreciate 5
RugbyBro7574.00
Russ103300.50
Vivek.1363.50
      04-03-2021, 11:24 AM   #96
F32Fleet
Lieutenant General
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
3540
Rep
10,327
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southeastern US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter.M3 View Post
Kinda controversial but I couldn't find anyone else's input. I see 3 series with the M sport package with M badges, M stickered calipers, M color stripes, etc. In my opinion, it's excessive.

Now, would you consider this upbadging? I would say yes, but I'm not sure. What's your opinion?

However; I still think it's cool to an extent to do it to some BMWs, especially if you have some performance mods. So don't get me wrong there.
In the US market BMW has always had some package which included the "//M" logo but it was never used to denote a model that wasn't a true M-car. For example the E46ZHP was sold as having the performance package and M-logos appeared on the wheels and shifter. The bumper was called "M-Tech" in ROW. The vehicle was still only badged as a 330i.

The change in model naming is more the result of competitors like Audi (i.e. S, RS, etc) as well as more 3-series models. BMW recognized that there was demand for more M-variants. IMO the test market was the E46 M3 CSL (Euro only) & M3 Competition. The segment expanded upward with the addition of the GTS for the E90. So like Audi BMW also expanded the naming down market.
__________________
"Drive more, worry less. "

435i, MPPK, MPE, M-Sport Line
Appreciate 2
Vivek.1363.50
Moflow2484.50
      04-04-2021, 10:54 AM   #97
Russ103
First Lieutenant
301
Rep
327
Posts

Drives: 2021 X5 M50i
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post
When you see someone in a new Ferrari I'm sure you're not thinking "wow that guy looks really cool". You're thinking that guy doesn't deserve it and he looks like a douche bag. The same thing that the guy with the civic thinks about you when you fly by in the "M".
That's what jealous miserable douche bags think.
Appreciate 5
sikotic482.00
stein_325i25051.00
Vivek.1363.50
540iSUP703.00
      04-04-2021, 04:52 PM   #98
Glenn McF
New Member
18
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: G30 540i G23 430i Convertible
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Chattanooga, TN.

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I have a 2019 540i M sport, my first BMW. I didn’t know what an M car was when I bought mine because I knew what I could afford and M cars didn’t fit that requirement, so I didn't bother with them. I now understand the difference and clearly they are different, I understand that my M Sport is not an M. I wish it was, but I won’t say it is. Having said that, I admit I did enjoy the moment when a know it all friend quietly pointed out the M sport badging to his wife and told her what an amazing thing it was that I had bought an M car!
Appreciate 2
540iSUP703.00
      04-04-2021, 07:08 PM   #99
Teutonic
Colonel
Teutonic's Avatar
No_Country
2706
Rep
2,350
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy2001 View Post
Correct you are....still a poser.
So, if BMW issued an M340 with that badge you are a poser?
What do you suggest? Debadge the vehicle so you can be happy?

BMW should have designate a diferent letter for the sport packages vehicles. It is not the owner’s fault that BMW badged a sport package under M badge. Keep in mind though that these vehicles still have several components that make them different though.

Now, you expect someone to debadge the vehicle, change the door sills, wheels, steering wheel, calipers or even M seatbelts just so you can feel unique?
I don’t thing that milking the M badge was a good strategy as BMW could very well name this sporty niche differently; but I also believe that your statement is condescending.

BMW called it an M package and put the badge? Yes. Good! Carry on then...
A conosseur knows the difference.
In fact, probably this controversial front grill just puts this argument to rest as the vehicles are different now.
Appreciate 1
TruthOne1081.00
      04-04-2021, 07:26 PM   #100
timothy2001
Major
timothy2001's Avatar
United_States
846
Rep
1,178
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 6MT ZCP
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: NE Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 M3 E92  [0.00]
This thread:

Appreciate 3
Fined243.00
TruthOne1081.00
540iSUP703.00
      04-04-2021, 07:46 PM   #101
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by snareman View Post
I've owned both. My 435 with the M performance package definitely had some more sporty looks compared to the regular 4 series, but it certainly drove nothing like an M. Night and day difference. When I had it I never thought it was an M and owning several M's now I don't harbor any ill will towards BMW for putting it on there or for the people that have them. Certainly doesn't affect me if someone else is driving around with an M on their car, even if it is the elusive M528i (seen at the Marriott in Greenville when I did my PCD)
What pisses me off almost as much as the fake badging is the mismatching font between the M and numbered badging. It really bother my OCD, like if you're gonna fake it, at least try to fake it better.
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 3
RugbyBro7574.00
Vivek.1363.50
540iSUP703.00
      04-04-2021, 08:02 PM   #102
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
10473
Rep
4,815
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
My N55 M2 is a real M car. The engine has upgrades that the M235i didn’t have. It is in the same class as the N54 1M.
Actually it's more afaik. The N55 as it sits in the M2 has actually different partnumbers for key components compared to the m235i N55 (turbo, intercooler: different partnumbers). I don't know exactly what is different, but they are different parts.

For the 1M, that engine (N54) was exactly the same as found in other models (z4 etc). And yet the 1M is one of the greatest M cars imho. Certainly in the era after the e46 M3 CSL.

But on another note, I think a M235i or G29 Z4 M40i are more M cars than a X5M.
Suggesting that a big high heavy SUV has motorsport pedigree is.....pretty far fetched.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ supercharger | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers/KW camber plates | Sachs race engineering clutch | tons of custom sh#t
Appreciate 3
DanG10444.00
Moflow2484.50
540iSUP703.00
      04-05-2021, 01:26 AM   #103
GORDON.M3
Colonel
GORDON.M3's Avatar
Canada
1403
Rep
2,989
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 • F25 X3 M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: LAX/YYZ/NRT

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Actually it's more afaik. The N55 as it sits in the M2 has actually different partnumbers for key components compared to the m235i N55 (turbo, intercooler: different partnumbers). I don't know exactly what is different, but they are different parts.

For the 1M, that engine (N54) was exactly the same as found in other models (z4 etc). And yet the 1M is one of the greatest M cars imho. Certainly in the era after the e46 M3 CSL.

But on another note, I think a M235i or G29 Z4 M40i are more M cars than a X5M.
Suggesting that a big high heavy SUV has motorsport pedigree is.....pretty far fetched.
And if I'm not mistaken the N55 in the M2 has more forged components than the regular N55 found in the M235i/n55 platform cars.
__________________
INSTAGRAM: GORDON.M3
DINAN | EVOSPORT | VAC | ARP | RD SPORT | NEEZ | EIBACH | CSF | IND | BILSTEIN | KLASSEN | BREMBO | ENDLESS | BBS | BPM SPORT | PROJECT MU | EVENTURI
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2021, 09:31 AM   #104
Dagamus_NM
Dirka Dirka
1640
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: 14 Dinan 550i, 10 m3, 91 332iC
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Albuquerque NM

iTrader: (3)

I have had plenty of M sport cars. Never thought any were an M. But they do look and handle better than their non-sport counterparts.

The one thing I wish my M sport 550i had is a LSD. I wouldn't mind having the turbos off of the m5 either. I get that they need to save some things for the m5 but not having an LSD makes it hard to put the power down to the wheels.
Appreciate 1
540iSUP703.00
      04-05-2021, 10:36 AM   #105
Tacoma
Captain
Canada
945
Rep
749
Posts

Drives: BMWs for 30 yrs
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (0)

How did we get to 5 pages of this? The first 3 replies saying No No No should've ended the thread on page 1. So let's try this again...

For cars, the only true M models start with the letter M followed by a number, like M2, M3, M4, M5, M8. That's it. Anything else that has more than 1 number after the M, like the M340i or M850i, are not true M models but just regular BMW's with some M parts.

For SUV's, the only true M models start with the model names themselves followed by a singular letter M, like X3 M, X4 M, X5 M, X6 M. That's it. Anything else that has one or more numbers after the M, like the X4 M40i or X6 M50i, are not true M models but just regular BMW's with some M parts.
Appreciate 3
JustinHEMI7405.50
Vivek.1363.50
      04-05-2021, 10:39 AM   #106
RugbyBro
Brigadier General
RugbyBro's Avatar
7574
Rep
3,596
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
What pisses me off almost as much as the fake badging is the mismatching font
Haha this! I get more annoyed at the poor implementation of a badge more than the badge itself
__________________
Current: F80
Prior: F82, F32
Appreciate 3
stein_325i25051.00
Dagamus_NM1639.50
540iSUP703.00
      04-05-2021, 05:50 PM   #107
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Reading some of the comments on here, it's time many forum members read a bit of the BMW heritage, and the use of the 'M'.

One of my colleagues was driving a factory built E12 "M535i" back in the early 1980's. We had to wait for the E28 5-series before we had the first M5.

Read how the first "M535i" came about....
Appreciate 1
Vivek.1363.50
      04-06-2021, 12:05 AM   #108
LOW4LYF
Brigadier General
LOW4LYF's Avatar
2162
Rep
4,104
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 & F85 X5M
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: @Home

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
How did we get to 5 pages of this? The first 3 replies saying No No No should've ended the thread on page 1. So let's try this again...

For cars, the only true M models start with the letter M followed by a number, like M2, M3, M4, M5, M8. That's it. Anything else that has more than 1 number after the M, like the M340i or M850i, are not true M models but just regular BMW's with some M parts.

For SUV's, the only true M models start with the model names themselves followed by a singular letter M, like X3 M, X4 M, X5 M, X6 M. That's it. Anything else that has one or more numbers after the M, like the X4 M40i or X6 M50i, are not true M models but just regular BMW's with some M parts.
How about E31 850CSI or E24 M635CSI ??? Not a real M car?
Appreciate 2
Vivek.1363.50
GuidoK10473.00
      04-06-2021, 12:31 PM   #109
jmg
Lieutenant General
jmg's Avatar
18493
Rep
14,085
Posts

Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2022 G82 M4C X-Drive  [9.83]
2018 F80 M3 CS  [9.83]
2019 i3 BEV  [0.00]
One of the most satisfying parts about driving an M car is rolling next to a fake badged car. I'd hate to feel cuckolded by the real deal while pretending to be something I'm not. I mean, even the risk of being humiliated like that should be enough to discourage fake-badgers.

They think they're Vin, but they're actually Jesse.
__________________

2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing
Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3
IG: Raging_G82
Appreciate 2
stein_325i25051.00
JustinHEMI7405.50
      04-06-2021, 01:02 PM   #110
///MPhatic
The Seeker
///MPhatic's Avatar
13539
Rep
3,206
Posts

Drives: OG M2 • Exige
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter.M3 View Post
Kinda controversial but I couldn't find anyone else's input. I see 3 series with the M sport package with M badges, M stickered calipers, M color stripes, etc. In my opinion, it's excessive.

Now, would you consider this upbadging? I would say yes, but I'm not sure. What's your opinion?

However; I still think it's cool to an extent to do it to some BMWs, especially if you have some performance mods. So don't get me wrong there.
Your real question is; what makes an M-car an M-Car?

The answer isn't an "S" code on the engine, as most would have you believe. It's simply a "performance model", not just some performance bits.

So it looks like this.

240 = standard road car.
M240 = standard road car with increased performance by virtue of higher performance M parts.
M2 = M-Car

A real M-Car turns out to be ANY collection of M bits that BMW decides makes it an M-Car, regardless of what anyone else says, since they invented it.
Appreciate 2
Vivek.1363.50
Dagamus_NM1639.50
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 PM.




e46m3
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST