08-28-2024, 05:18 PM | #9066 | |
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Unfortunately the bulk of the "conversations" in this thread are anti-ev clickbait that centers on fires and a lack of chargers. I tried to join in this thread a few times to discuss reasonable topics like what you posted above, but instead just get constantly bombarded with bullshit clickbait and half facts. It's really just not worth the stress. Nobody has the time to have in-depth conversations like this on a forum, so yes, it just ends up being a circle jerk for the majority of posters. |
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08-28-2024, 05:29 PM | #9067 |
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From what I have seen and heard up to now EV to me is still and will be: Eventually Vanquished.
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08-28-2024, 06:42 PM | #9068 |
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So much drama to be an EV owner. ICE is simple life. How come ppl doesn't get it
Here’s Why Most Other EVs Still Can’t Use Tesla Superchargers https://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-most...rch-1851633863 |
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08-28-2024, 09:08 PM | #9069 | |
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08-28-2024, 09:54 PM | #9070 | |
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I'm a very middle of the road person on EV's, but you'd never know it on this thread, I might as well be Elon Musk. I'm in full support, I own one because it works very well for my situation. But I also love ICE performance cars and don't want to see them go away. Hell, I'm a save the manuals guy too. Also think the mandates are crazy, but not against the tax credits. blah blah. We just don't have days and days to type walls of text to explain every little nuance, so things get boiled down to black and white and it just enhances divisiveness. If a bunch of us sat down and had beers together, we'd find that we all have a lot more in common than posts on this thread would lead anyone to believe... |
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08-29-2024, 02:26 AM | #9071 | |
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Last edited by M5Rick; 08-29-2024 at 04:47 AM.. |
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08-29-2024, 09:05 AM | #9072 | |
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08-29-2024, 12:10 PM | #9073 |
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How about someone from Tesla talking shit about his own products
Tesla investor Ross Gerber says he can't get rid of his used Tesla. Here's why Musk's cars aren't retaining value like they used to. https://www.businessinsider.com/used...v-sales-2024-8 |
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08-29-2024, 12:18 PM | #9074 |
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People with open minds are also willing to see the drawbacks, limitations, and areas of ineffectiveness for new technology. It's a two way street, not every new technology makes sense at a larger scale, not every new technology even works.
The real issue with EVs is the idea that they must get 100% market share. They absolutely have a niche application, and it could be a large segment even. But there's roles they suck at. It's the same as saying "coupes are on average more efficient so by 2030 all new cars must be coupes". |
08-29-2024, 03:13 PM | #9076 | |
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EV works for the vast majority of my families' driving, so I do it. We fill up with hydro electricity, not coal. We commute in stop and go traffic, where EV's thrive. I can fill up for free at work, meaning we've paid about $50 in fuel for the past 2K miles driven. I can park in my driveway and charge outside, so there is a lot less concern about the extremely low chance of a fire. We have the luxury of having multiple vehicles so we have a road trip ICE, a fun to drive ICE, and then our EV. The list goes on about my specific circumstances and why it works well. But it will not work for a lot of people, and the mandates need to drop. Manufacturers need to make ICE, Hybrid, and EV... I'd like to see a situation where 50% of cars are hybrid, 25% are ICE, 25% are EV. |
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08-29-2024, 04:02 PM | #9077 | |
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08-29-2024, 04:08 PM | #9079 | |
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I think electric motors are far better at converting stored energy to kenetic motion than a traditional ICE/transmission architecture. I've always thought this even when my father bought his GE E-15 Electrak in 1973 when I was 11 years old. But like EV today, the Electrak had a limited use case (maintaining our 2-acre yard). It was fantastic at that function, but not much more. It's battery capacity and slow recharge speed were its limitations. IMO ICEV cover a much broader use case for anyone regardless of their socio-economic status and domicile arrangements. Let the market develop an EV that uses something different than a battery for fuel and is convenient to use in the broad use case ICEV can fulfill and you'll see my praises written here in this thread. Last edited by Efthreeoh; 08-29-2024 at 04:16 PM.. |
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08-29-2024, 04:21 PM | #9080 | |
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The reality of it is that EVs aren't really more green, the greenest thing is not producing as many new cars and repairing and upkeeping the existing ones. But that doesn't make the green that matters, money. Unless you're charging with power you're creating yourself, reality is you're getting power from a mix of sources. You might have a large hydro or nuke plant nearby, but the grid is, well, a grid. So you're getting power from everywhere. In the end, we should be subsidizing PHEVs at a much higher rate than BEVs. And frankly, the limits for MSRP and incomes should be adjusted to be more strict. Taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing this GS for people earning at the top like 5% of households. That said, the MSRP cap at 80k is an awkward price point, where it's a lot of money, but it's also not including higher end trims for some of these things. Lightning for example, any platinum trim truck is excluded, so if you want one, and you're spending fairly good money for an expensive truck, you're stuck in a lariat trim with a few options. The other EV trucks are likely to be even more expensive than Lightning, so they'll likely be totally excluded from it. IMO, what would be the best solution is to have the government pay the manufacturers a variable rate rebate to cover the cost of the addition of a PHEV setup, with a minimum range of 30 miles (or whatever), and a maximum value of $10k. So that allows the manufacturer to price their PHEVs at the exact same price as the ICE vehicles, and if you're given the option between a PHEV or a basic ICE for the same price, nobody would say no to the PHEV (unless it was an X5 50e that doesn't work :X ) The government already has policies in place on the defense side to prove to the government what something costs, so that could be leveraged. This sort of rebate would provide an immediate boost to PHEV sales and an immediate and dramatic drop in gasoline consumption, while still giving people the flexibility of ICE range. The current issue of PHEVs not having a reasonable ROI goes out the window. The only losers are people who are heavily I vested in EVs and their supply chains, which includes big money banks, and so it won't ever happen. |
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08-29-2024, 04:49 PM | #9081 | |
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The other real issue with EV adoption, at some point, a vehicle costs so much that I don't care about the fuel economy savings. Ramcharger is going to be a great example. If a fully loaded Ramcharger is like 100k, even if it matches the performance of a 90k turbo6 truck, I don't care about the potential ROI because it's a 100k truck. I'm not gonna pay 100k to beta test something that has a competitive alternative. Frankly, even with price parity, I'm likely not going to buy the beta test product, because I have more money than time, and so the risk of having to deal with new product issues is of more importance to me than maybe saving money on "fuel". If i'm looking at cars in the 30k range, then saving money on fuel is gonna matter a lot more to me, because that fuel cost is a larger portion of my income most likely. If you're buying a 100k car, fuel costs shouldn't be factoring into your budget. |
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08-29-2024, 04:57 PM | #9082 | ||
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This is false and has been proven many times over. EV's are better for the environment from start to finish, from mining the materials to recycling. Even with a so-so electricity source.
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I agree on Hybrids. They hit a sweet spot. They're pretty good, they help stretch resources, and they keep things within the comfort level of most people. |
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08-29-2024, 05:14 PM | #9083 |
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If you compare it to a car from the 60s, sure. But if you're talking about something from like 1995 or newer, you're talking about a very clean car, with some exceptions. And if the catalytic converter system fails on any vehicle with OBD2 (1996), you'll get downstream O2 errors and a check engine light.
If you have a car that's like an 05 or newer, it is in no way more green to replace it than it is to repair it. There's plenty of other reasons to replace a car, safety features, size, whatever, but just like it isn't actually cheaper to replace a car for fuel economy (outside of some very niche, cherry picked situations), it isn't greener to replace it for emissions. I think a much larger issue that we face is the culture of replacement vs repair. Cheap labor has created a culture in society where we don't fix things, we replace them. Got a bad Les strip in your tv? Replace the tv, not replace the part. They say the majority of appliances are replaced due to failed control boards that are a couple hundred bucks We have been conditioned however to say "why fox it for $500 when I can replace the whole thing for $800" and don't give a crap about the waste. Last edited by BlkGS; 08-29-2024 at 05:19 PM.. |
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08-29-2024, 06:39 PM | #9084 | |
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08-29-2024, 07:03 PM | #9085 | ||
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So for a very large percentage of car owners in our big cities the technology will have to improve dramatically. I would say more than improve. It will have to change. Batteries will have to be able to be charged within a matter of minutes, much like now with filling a tank with gas, and there will have to be chargers capable of delivering such a charge. As I mentioned in the original post, I have never heard an industry representative or a political representative even mention this issue in passing. It appears to be totally ignored.
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08-29-2024, 09:03 PM | #9086 | |
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https://www.snopud.com/community-env.../clean-energy/ |
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