[Efthreeoh]

That hit would total an ICEV too. Not sure what the issue is. Totalled is totalled.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Redd

As with all inventions, total market dominance is never feasible. I see it in IT all the time. One minute The Next Big Thing is going to take over the world. 10 yrs later it will still be a co-existence story with the previous generations of tech. Virtualization, cloud, EV, etc it's all the same. I'm pretty sure Casio claimed they were gonna put Rolex out of business when they launched the first digital wristwatch. Any industry leader who doesn't understand this is naive to say the least.

^This guy gets it and is the realist in this thread. Car Addicted, Weather Man, etc. are all caught up in the ESG/EV doom and gloom to see the true picture of what will happen in the EU regarding this 2035 emissions silliness. It won't work and isn't sustainable. The EU will definitely backtrack on this once it really starts to impact their economies in a couple years. The backtracking will start with Germany and will snowball from there. Just watch.

The future is a blend of EVs, hybrids, ICE, fuel cell, etc. All the eggs in one basket isn't feasible and never is.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Not even close on an ICE, LOL. 2 new doors and paint. Just had a new door put on my F-150 and paint blended for 4k from a kid that backed into it.

I need 2 near side doors painted because of bad paint applied from a repair before I bought it, £400 but will probably be a bit more with blending.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Ford in Oakville Ontario received billions in government grants/incentives to produce EV's and they just announced they will be building SuperDuty pick ups with gas and diesel engines. Government can try to mandate what companies manufacture but companies won't last long if consumers don't buy their products.

Also Elon Musk made most of his billions from government grants too apparently.

[Car-Addicted]

When the European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is elected to a second 5 year term I tend to listen to what she is saying but you can do what you wish.

Von der Leyen indicated she plans to maintain a contentious EU policy to ban sales of new CO2-emitting cars by 2035 - a target the document said "creates predictability for investors and manufacturers".

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The backtracking will start with Germany and will snowball from there. Just watch.
The future is a blend of EVs, hybrids, ICE, fuel cell, etc. All the eggs in one basket isn't feasible and never is.

This is the logical and common sense end result but common sense is in short supply among Un-elected bureaucrats these days.
Have you answered the question on why BMW, Volkswagen, and Renault take aim at Europe’s ICE ban phase-out?
As for the automakers, just last month, ACEA, Europe’s automakers association, headed by de Meo, said that it is not pushing back and is all in with the EV future, with de Meo adding that the auto industry wants no part in arguing “against the regulation.” “We are not contesting 2035,” said de Meo. “Now we must get down to it.” He added that the upcoming ban target of 2035 “is potentially feasible, but the right conditions must be put in place.”
https://electrek.co/2024/03/22/say-i...ropes-ice-ban/

You may think this is a simple issue for consumer supply and demand but it far more complicated and yes auto companies run on money and these days money is controlled by ESG.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

That hit would total an ICEV too. Not sure what the issue is. Totalled is totalled.

Got to disagree, while it's been decades since I owned a body shop, IMO doors and maybe outer rocker would not total a car as long as parts were available. That is what I suspect the problem is, the insurance company is looking at a 6 month rental car bill on top of the repairs. Remember this is a $100,000 plus ride and not some Pinto

Sorry cheap shot

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

^This guy gets it and is the realist in this thread. Car Addicted, Weather Man, etc. are all caught up in the ESG/EV doom and gloom to see the true picture of what will happen in the EU regarding this 2035 emissions silliness. It won't work and isn't sustainable. The EU will definitely backtrack on this once it really starts to impact their economies in a couple years. The backtracking will start with Germany and will snowball from there. Just watch.

The future is a blend of EVs, hybrids, ICE, fuel cell, etc. All the eggs in one basket isn't feasible and never is.

I called it 8 years ago we would end up with a blend of EV and PHEV. It looks inevitable. There are still people saying we can fully transition to EV by 2035 (new car sales), even in europe i cannot see it.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I called it 8 years ago we would end up with a blend of EV and PHEV. It looks inevitable. There are still people saying we can fully transition to EV by 2035 (new car sales), even in europe i cannot see it.

I suspect that in the future a huge part of the vehicles on the road and sold will still be basic ass ICE cars. Everyone (well, almost everyone) can see that the EV adoption stuff is a control and cash grab from working class people. They'll skirt it by saying "as long as they can run on synthetic fuels they're ok" which is every single engine mad elike, ever. They'll get to claim their moral superiority victory, and just tax the shit out of the working class for the fuel they need so they can keep them down

Hopefully people around the world start to wake.up and vote out politicians that want to tax their fuel to the extreme. When you look at places with high costs for fuel (especially in the US but I suspect globally), it's usually mostly taxes driving those prices up artificially.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I suspect that in the future a huge part of the vehicles on the road and sold will still be basic ass ICE cars.

I plan to buy the last version of the current M3 and keep that. Even the M340i has moved to some weird mild hybrid.

If I could afford a Porsche I'd get a 992.1 as that's the last ever ICE Porsche but their starting price is that of a F90 M5 CS

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Yeah, it was the computers that totaled it, not the mechanical, since the hit was above the battery pack. Still, interesting that between circuits, software and labor, insurance didn't think 80% of value would get it done. Maybe with no visible damage to battery compartment, they still aren't sure what happened to the batteries inside the pack.

That's one over complex problem from a side impact on this EV.

[M5Rick]

VW on the brink? $192 billion in debt because of EV's.

[Car-Addicted]

And yet

As for the automakers, just last month, ACEA, Europe’s automakers association, headed by de Meo, said that it is not pushing back and is all in with the EV future, with de Meo adding that the auto industry wants no part in arguing “against the regulation.” “We are not contesting 2035,” said de Meo. “Now we must get down to it.” He added that the upcoming ban target of 2035 “is potentially feasible, but the right conditions must be put in place.”

https://electrek.co/2024/03/22/say-i...ropes-ice-ban/

The EU chickens are helping sharpen the axe!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

And yet

As for the automakers, just last month, ACEA, Europe’s automakers association, headed by de Meo, said that it is not pushing back and is all in with the EV future, with de Meo adding that the auto industry wants no part in arguing “against the regulation.” “We are not contesting 2035,” said de Meo. “Now we must get down to it.” He added that the upcoming ban target of 2035 “is potentially feasible, but the right conditions must be put in place.”

https://electrek.co/2024/03/22/say-i...ropes-ice-ban/

The EU chickens are helping sharpen the axe!

Eau leaders: blind leading the blind.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I suspect that in the future a huge part of the vehicles on the road and sold will still be basic ass ICE cars. Everyone (well, almost everyone) can see that the EV adoption stuff is a control and cash grab from working class people.

That's just not gonna happen, Toyota is showing hybrids can work and their real life fuel economy is outstanding. I can maybe see traditional hybrid instead pf Phev but pure ICE with no battery will die out due to legislation.

Again, see how Toyota have made this work.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by G30M

If I could afford a Porsche I'd get a 992.1 as that's the last ever ICE Porsche but their starting price is that of a F90 M5 CS

Ummmmm all but one model of the 992.2 is ICE, only the GTS has a battery.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Redd

As with all inventions, total market dominance is never feasible. I see it in IT all the time. One minute The Next Big Thing is going to take over the world. 10 yrs later it will still be a co-existence story with the previous generations of tech. Virtualization, cloud, EV, etc it's all the same. I'm pretty sure Casio claimed they were gonna put Rolex out of business when they launched the first digital wristwatch. Any industry leader who doesn't understand this is naive to say the least.

What is the definition of total market dominance? I'd say the ICE has total market dominance over flesh-powered work apparatus for 100 years. Sure, there are traditionalists or 3rd/4th world populations who still use horse and oxen to accomplish work, but that is statistically irrelevant. I'd say jet aircraft have total market dominance over piston-engine aircraft for commercial air travel. The internet has total market dominance over print media at this point.

I don't think EV will ever come close to ICEV because of cost and convenience reasons.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Not even close on an ICE, LOL. 2 new doors and paint. Just had a new door put on my F-150 and paint blended for 4k from a kid that backed into it.

Yeah, but that Cybertruck wasn't just "backed" into. It was pushed into a curb and hit a pole on the left side. I think it was a Ford Edge that hit the CT? It was a seriously hard hit to push a CT off its trajectory. The same force would have crushed an ICEV pickup.

The CT has excellent side intrusion crash performance. Jason Cammisa's has good footage of Tesla's side-impact testing. The CT is a structural beast when it comes to crashes.

[Ugly Kar]

Nothing here we didn't already know (and too many ads), but just again asks the question, "where in the *(%$ are we going to get enough Cu for EV's"?

And let's destroy the environment and poison people so the elitists can have their EV's.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...efd1841e&ei=16

[Equilibrandt]

It's obvious that governments put forth unreasonable, unreachable goals to spur instantaneous movement. Everyone with two brain cells knows that these 2030/2035 EV numbers are nonsensical. They do know that threats motivate companies to make choices now.

In my personal opinion, it was probably always the hope that EVs would simply break into the market (maybe 15% of YoY sales?), and that was the only purpose of the mandates and due dates. It was never about 100% EV; it'll always be a progressive spread of mild hybrid M340i versus a RAM TRX versus a Tesla Model 3 versus granddad's Pontiac Firebird.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

The problem is that hybrids are banned right along with ICE. The Green Insanity says no ICE of any sort, period.

This will change, that will be the compromise. Interestingly in Canada hybrids are allowed.

[NickyC]

EVs, though they are nice, are just like crypto to me. After many years, both still solve zero problems.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

That's just not gonna happen, Toyota is showing hybrids can work and their real life fuel economy is outstanding. I can maybe see traditional hybrid instead pf Phev but pure ICE with no battery will die out due to legislation.

Again, see how Toyota have made this work.

Nobody thinks hybrids can't work. I just think that a lot of people are going to exit the market for new cars if everything has to be hybrid of PHEV or EV. Legislation is easily changed. When major companies start falling because nobody can afford the cars that have been legislated into existence, that legislation will change quickly.