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      05-26-2020, 06:21 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
Exactly true. Look at the Audi RS3 as example...3.5-3.7s 0-60 but has horrible lag in the real world (doesn't help that there's transmission lag as well).
I had a 2018 RS3. While it was fast, from a stand still it's very boring. Without launch control which I don't think people would be using for every acceleration, when you floor it nothing happens for a couple of seconds then it starts to really move. Very boring.
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      05-26-2020, 06:28 PM   #90
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I had a 2018 RS3. While it was fast, from a stand still it's very boring. Without launch control which I don't think people would be using for every acceleration, when you floor it nothing happens for a couple of seconds then it starts to really move. Very boring.
I wanted to love the RS3 so much but honestly for 99% of my daily driving the S3 felt punchier in and around town. Backroad, no traffic situations are really fun in the RS3 and that's where it shines. Still love the looks of them though!
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      05-27-2020, 11:44 AM   #91
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I read an article not too long ago that the next generation will still hold on to the V8. Conflicting reports. :/
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      11-30-2020, 12:16 PM   #92
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Not sure how this one is going to go over, so...
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      11-30-2020, 12:21 PM   #93
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In a strange way, I can dig it. I would prefer hybrids over everything switching to full EV and we have silent assassins with more power and no noise.

We see what small displacement and decent backup from a huffer and electric motors can do via F1, P cars (918) and similar hyper cars producing insane performance. Many will likely be upset, but I would also take these changes over the garbage BMW spit out with the G8x.... Seems the easier pill to swallow.

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      11-30-2020, 01:28 PM   #94
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Oh my, would not want.
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      11-30-2020, 01:30 PM   #95
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Time to get a W205 before they end production. With the I4 this will surely keep the resale higher being that its the last V8 AMG C-Class. My one hope is that with this new powertrain set up they will maybe make the car a little more fun/playful like the new A/CLA 45 are. Luckily the V8 is staying in the E-Class and up, still a shame though, the V8 is what defined this car.
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      11-30-2020, 01:45 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveohwblow View Post
In a strange way, I can dig it. I would prefer hybrids over everything switching to full EV and we have silent assassins with more power and no noise.

We see what small displacement and decent backup from a huffer and electric motors can do via F1, P cars (918) and similar hyper cars producing insane performance. Many will likely be upset, but I would also take these types of changes of the garbage BMW spit out with the G8x.... Seems the easier pill to swallow.
No doubt it's going to cause waves and piss off some people. The other thing that doesn't really matter whether it's 4 6 or 8 cyl is that increasing the performance of combustion engines keeps getting us to more and more exotic systems, parts, materials, things like electric turbochargers and superchargers, more elaborate turbo chargers, more complexity to recover as much heat as possible, and so on. This leads to less reliability in the long term IMO, it just creates more and more points of failure and a more complex system that has to all work perfectly, which it probably will for the warranty period, but the more and more performance is squeezed out, the more this seems to suffer (long term).

I think porsche has one more trick up their sleeve with the rear-engine layout. While not optimal, with all sorts of exotic engineering and cost it can perform as good or better, things like active suspension, torque vectoring, rear wheel steering, etc., but you eventually reach a hard limit and it gets increasingly harder for you to compete with the better chassis...but, you got all that space up front that naturally lends itself to a hybrid setup, electrically powered front wheels, ICE powered rear. The ability to capture some energy from braking and unleash it is a game-changer.
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      11-30-2020, 01:46 PM   #97
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I really can't fathom why they wouldn't put a tuned M256 inline 6 in it first to soften the blow of losing the V8, even if the ultimate goal is going to a 4 cylinder. It also makes me worried that the C-class will move to a FWD platform in the future.
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      11-30-2020, 06:40 PM   #98
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I really can't fathom why they wouldn't put a tuned M256 inline 6 in it first to soften the blow of losing the V8, even if the ultimate goal is going to a 4 cylinder. It also makes me worried that the C-class will move to a FWD platform in the future.
Exactly!
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      12-01-2020, 12:23 AM   #99
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Amg should ask porsche if this is what their customers want.
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      12-01-2020, 08:36 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Time to get a W205 before they end production. With the I4 this will surely keep the resale higher being that its the last V8 AMG C-Class. My one hope is that with this new powertrain set up they will maybe make the car a little more fun/playful like the new A/CLA 45 are. Luckily the V8 is staying in the E-Class and up, still a shame though, the V8 is what defined this car.
I'm definitely not an AMG guy, but the C63 would be my second choice after the M3/4. No manual kind of kills it for me, but at least no one will ever say the car doesn't have character.

There have been more and more rumors about this 4 pot hybrid from pretty reliable sources, but it would be a double no for me. Not interested in a hybrid unless it's a plug in, and even then that would be stretching it. Add to the fact it's a 4 cylinder would be the final nail in the coffin for me.

I've had 2 turbo 4 pots as daily drivers, and it's OK at best, and that's only because they weren't weekend cars. I appreciated the good MPG, but didn't like the characters of these cars, not to mention the lack of smoothness compared to the I6's, especially during start/stop cycles.

Just a personal opinion, but I don't even really like the 4 cylinders in very highly regarded cars like the S2000.
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      12-01-2020, 09:40 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Time to get a W205 before they end production. With the I4 this will surely keep the resale higher being that its the last V8 AMG C-Class. My one hope is that with this new powertrain set up they will maybe make the car a little more fun/playful like the new A/CLA 45 are. Luckily the V8 is staying in the E-Class and up, still a shame though, the V8 is what defined this car.
I doubt it.

The only car I've ever seen exhibit the "last of" phenomenon is the 993. Otherwise, people usually just move on to the latest and greatest.
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      12-01-2020, 09:56 AM   #102
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I doubt it.

The only car I've ever seen exhibit the "last of" phenomenon is the 993. Otherwise, people usually just move on to the latest and greatest.
I'm not saying that they are gonna sell for E30 M3 prices, but V8's are a big deal in the AMG community. The last V8 AMG C-Class at least in the future may hold prices just a tad higher than normal depreciation. It will still depreciate of course, its not a god status car like the 993. Other than the E9X M3 which has been gone for years, there is no other newer compact sedan that offers a V8 under the hood. Definitely something that may be sought after in our bleak electric/downsizing future.
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      12-01-2020, 01:30 PM   #103
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Amg should ask porsche if this is what their customers want.
It's interesting that some people are adamant about this, yet the 718 comes up in the "10 best cars" nearly every year. Having raced against them several times, I have to say the criticisms are ill-informed. They are wonderful cars, the engine works great, it's just people's prejudices and perceptions affecting this that don't hold up.
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      12-01-2020, 01:33 PM   #104
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Is the 4.0TT V8 reliable?
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      12-01-2020, 01:58 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I'm not saying that they are gonna sell for E30 M3 prices, but V8's are a big deal in the AMG community. The last V8 AMG C-Class at least in the future may hold prices just a tad higher than normal depreciation. It will still depreciate of course, its not a god status car like the 993. Other than the E9X M3 which has been gone for years, there is no other newer compact sedan that offers a V8 under the hood. Definitely something that may be sought after in our bleak electric/downsizing future.
It might, but the most sought after small Mercedes sedan ie the 190E 2.5 Evo seems to do just fine.

So yeah there might be a bump in resale but just like anything else these days, the performance will not be taking a back seat even with a 4 or 6 cylinder powerplant. I think that's most important for AMG customers.
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      12-01-2020, 02:01 PM   #106
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Is the 4.0TT V8 reliable?
The only issues I know of were early M178 (4.0TT) AMG engines in the E63S suffered from misfire issues, and MB bought a lot of those cars back from owners. Merc V8's tend to be very durable. Their outgoing (non-AMG) M278 (4.7TT) V8 is practically bulletproof.
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      12-01-2020, 07:03 PM   #107
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
Amg should ask porsche if this is what their customers want.
It's interesting that some people are adamant about this, yet the 718 comes up in the "10 best cars" nearly every year. Having raced against them several times, I have to say the criticisms are ill-informed. They are wonderful cars, the engine works great, it's just people's prejudices and perceptions affecting this that don't hold up.
I've driven them. They're fantastic cars and the engine isn't awful. But customers don't want them.

The Gts 4.0 is porsches reaction to their customers not buying the 4 pot.
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      12-01-2020, 07:34 PM   #108
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I've driven them. They're fantastic cars and the engine isn't awful. But customers don't want them.

The Gts 4.0 is porsches reaction to their customers not buying the 4 pot.
Well, enough customers are fine with them that they haven't changed the entire line over. I don't expect to see that happen either.
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      12-01-2020, 11:45 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
The only issues I know of were early M178 (4.0TT) AMG engines in the E63S suffered from misfire issues, and MB bought a lot of those cars back from owners. Merc V8's tend to be very durable. Their outgoing (non-AMG) M278 (4.7TT) V8 is practically bulletproof.
The M156, M273 and M157/M278 all have their issues. I wouldn't use the word "durable" with Mercedes V8s. Timing chains, soft cams, cylinder head bolts, swirl flaps, cylinder scuffing, oil wicking into wiring harnesses, and more.

The latest M17x had misfire problems, as noted. I would add that this engine hasn't achieved sufficient time or production volume history to make a strong statement on reliability.
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      12-02-2020, 07:24 AM   #110
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The M156, M273 and M157/M278 all have their issues. I wouldn't use the word "durable" with Mercedes V8s. Timing chains, soft cams, cylinder head bolts, swirl flaps, cylinder scuffing, oil wicking into wiring harnesses, and more.

The latest M17x had misfire problems, as noted. I would add that this engine hasn't achieved sufficient time or production volume history to make a strong statement on reliability.
In my experience my uncle's 5 MB V8's have been good but as always YMMV, but he has had more non-AMG V8's (aside from one E55). Probably right that durable isn't the best word choice, although by German standards, I would still say they are better (reliability wise) than BMW's or Audi's V8's which are more problematic. BMW tends to do a lot better with their 6-cylinder engines.
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