[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by fgpalmer71

And that's pretty much what I've heard. Used EV's scare me and I'm aware that's probably all in my head. If that changes, and the Taycan in used form falls into non outlandish territory, I could see myself in one. But I have a felling they're going to hold their value quite well.....they are freaking beautiful to look at though.

I actually think the opposite. As fast as battery technology is improving, a first-gen Taycan is going to look like junk compared to the second generation. I wouldn't be surprised if the second gen had double the battery range and charged twice as fast. That renders the current gen obsolete, which means low resale....but it has an 8 year battery warranty and could be a great used value in a couple years because of all that.

[Germanauto]

Poor Panamera. People wanting practicality opt for the Cayenne, people wanting a real Porsche opt for the 911, and people wanting the trendy EV opt for the Taycan.

I have a burning desire for Porsche to produce a smaller ICE sport sedan. The Panamera is big, expensive, and from what I've heard not as sharp to drive as it could be. A sedan the size of a Macan and priced like an A6/A7 would do better on the market than the Panamera in my opinion.

But alas it's impossible to justify producing a new ICE sedan from ground up in today's climate.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Poor Panamera. People wanting practicality opt for the Cayenne, people wanting a real Porsche opt for the 911, and people wanting the trendy EV opt for the Taycan.

I have a burning desire for Porsche to produce a smaller ICE sport sedan. The Panamera is big, expensive, and from what I've heard not as sharp to drive as it could be. A sedan the size of a Macan and priced like an A6/A7 would do better on the market than the Panamera in my opinion.

But alas it's impossible to justify producing a new ICE sedan from ground up in today's climate.

Agreed, would love a smaller Panamera in the sport turismo hatch form. I drive a Panamera turbo sport turismo right before the Taycan and it wasn’t even close. Can’t imagine why someone would buy the Panamera over the Taycan if they drive both. The Panamera had some major turbo lag and the instant torque on the Taycan is amazing. It’s like you’re at 7000rpm at all times.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

But alas it's impossible to justify producing a new ICE sedan from ground up in today's climate.

I mean, Porsche has a massive parts bin to develop something on, hell the A6 (C8 platform) would be sufficient to start with, since majority of the hard work and certification is already there anyways and most parts are tooled.

Imagine a Porsche competitor to the M5, E63, RS6

[fgpalmer71]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

I actually think the opposite. As fast as battery technology is improving, a first-gen Taycan is going to look like junk compared to the second generation. I wouldn't be surprised if the second gen had double the battery range and charged twice as fast. That renders the current gen obsolete, which means low resale....but it has an 8 year battery warranty and could be a great used value in a couple years because of all that.

You might be right, I hadn't thought of it that way. I just see how strong the 3-4 yr old Tesla market seems to be and assume the Porsche, made in smaller numbers would follow suit if not be a bit stronger once they hit the used market in mass quantities. But when I think on it a bit more it could be possible that the Tesla's are being buoyed by their continual support in terms of contstant updates....in addition to how Tesla seems to be controling their prices by offering a warranty on used Tesla's purchased direct from Tesla.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Poor Panamera. People wanting practicality opt for the Cayenne, people wanting a real Porsche opt for the 911, and people wanting the trendy EV opt for the Taycan.

I have a burning desire for Porsche to produce a smaller ICE sport sedan. The Panamera is big, expensive, and from what I've heard not as sharp to drive as it could be. A sedan the size of a Macan and priced like an A6/A7 would do better on the market than the Panamera in my opinion.

But alas it's impossible to justify producing a new ICE sedan from ground up in today's climate.

If Porsche ever made their own version of Audi RS5, I would buy it in a heartbeat!

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by kyriian

Imagine a Porsche competitor to the M5, E63, RS6

Technically that's what the Panamera is, albeit a tad bigger. Its what Porsche and the magazine/journalists compare it to.

The Panamera sort of fills the space of the old short-wheelbase flagships, like the shorty-sporty 7er. The Panamera mainly exists because Porsche's CEO wanted a car he could ride in the backseat of, hence why the first gen had a hunchback. The Panamera likely won't see a successor, at least an ICE one at that.

Years ago there were rumors of a Pajun sedan from Porsche, which would be smaller than a Panamera, alas tho, the Taycan is essentially the replacement for the canned concept.

[Humdizzle]

i could see the pani being replaced by the taycan.

the big story is going to be when the macan goes electric. its going to sell like crazy.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i could see the pani being replaced by the taycan.

the big story is going to be when the macan goes electric. its going to sell like crazy.

Agreed. If you could put this kind of power in a Macan for under $100k I’d definitely buy one.

[W///]

Drove a Taycan 4S and was very impressed. Launch control was OK, but stomping on the accelerator while the car is already rolling is ridiculous. I think it has more than enough performance than anyone will ever need, especially as a DD.

Having said that, it was listed at $130k which is hard to stomach. Lease for that particular car came to $1900 a month.

I think there's a place for electric cars, but I'd use it strictly as a commuter car.

[fgpalmer71]

When I drove the Tesla's I walked away utterly amazed in all facets. I thought the lack of engine note would be a killer for me.....I couldn't stop grinning long enough to notice in the 30-45 min I spent with each one. At the time I had just gotten into my 2nd Genesis and the Model 3 Performance was a tad small while the Model S raven edition was WAY more then I was willing to shell out. But, I told myslef I'd have one when the time came and I would definitely DD that thing. It made my gas powered cars seem totally outdated and completely irrelevant some how. The tech....the performance....I absolutely love those white interiors and thuroughly enjoyed the fake leather. I was completely smitten with both of them. The ever present charging stations make it so I can drive from Indiana to see family in AZ......for free.

[W///]

Originally Posted by fgpalmer71

When I drove the Tesla's I walked away utterly amazed in all facets. I thought the lack of engine note would be a killer for me.....I couldn't stop grinning long enough to notice in the 30-45 min I spent with each one. At the time I had just gotten into my 2nd Genesis and the Model 3 Performance was a tad small while the Model S raven edition was WAY more then I was willing to shell out. But, I told myslef I'd have one when the time came and I would definitely DD that thing. It made my gas powered cars seem totally outdated and completely irrelevant some how. The tech....the performance....I absolutely love those white interiors and thuroughly enjoyed the fake leather. I was completely smitten with both of them. The ever present charging stations make it so I can drive from Indiana to see family in AZ......for free.

I can certainly respect your views and why you like electric cars, but if they make your gas powered car become irrelevant, then you've probably got the wrong ICE car in my personal opinion.

I don't care how fast these electric cars are, they are very much complimentary to what I already have. Ideal situation for me would be an electric truck alongside my manual transmission M cars.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by W///

I can certainly respect your views and why you like electric cars, but if they make your gas powered car become irrelevant, then you've probably got the wrong ICE car in my personal opinion.

kind of how i feel. i dont want to speak for everyone but i wonder how many here have had a 9-10 second street car before trying a taycan or tesla. taycan turbo runs a 10.5 at 130 which really isn't all that. you can get a 10 year old bolt on gtr to run better and it costs half. or just tune a new M5.

i can respect the throttle response and instant torque at any speed, and doing it in total silence without being antisocial and bouncing the car off the redline with an NA engine or waiting for turbos to spool.

[fgpalmer71]

I haven't owned a 9 -10 sec car, but I've riden in a few. I've had the pleasure of experiencing quite a few cars with overly impressive performance. I've had proper, tuned, V12's singing gloruous songs a few inches behind me. I'm a car guy, was born that way, I get it honestly as the son of a car guy. I can respect a person who doesn't feel quite the same about EV's, I get it. But for me......they were just different. The way they accelerate....it's different. It's science, instant torque an ICE can't provide, it's just different. It's not just the acceleration for me though. I'll always have an ICE, but someday, odds are good, there will be a charger attached to 1 of the bays of my garage and my DD will be an EV.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

kind of how i feel. i dont want to speak for everyone but i wonder how many here have had a 9-10 second street car before trying a taycan or tesla. taycan turbo runs a 10.5 at 130 which really isn't all that. you can get a 10 year old bolt on gtr to run better and it costs half. or just tune a new M5.

i can respect the throttle response and instant torque at any speed, and doing it in total silence without being antisocial and bouncing the car off the redline with an NA engine or waiting for turbos to spool.

The problem with performance EVs is that this impressive performance only lasts for the first 10-20k miles, as long as the battery stays fresh. That’s a huge problem for me.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

The problem with performance EVs is that this impressive performance only lasts for the first 10-20k miles, as long as the battery stays fresh. That’s a huge problem for me.

Got any proof of that? The battery has an 8 year warranty and they guarantee it won't drop below 70% of capacity during that time. Theoretically the performance should remain the same with only diminished range over time.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Got any proof of that? The battery has an 8 year warranty and they guarantee it won't drop below 70% of capacity during that time. Theoretically the performance should remain the same with only diminished range over time.

not only the range is reduced but also the power, especially the top end power. this is well known among the long time P100D owners. you can also check this caranddriver long term update:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-test-wrap-up/

there is also this eye-opening dragtimes video:

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

not only the range is reduced but also the power, especially the top end power. this is well known among the long time P100D owners. you can also check this caranddriver long term update:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-test-wrap-up/

there is also this eye-opening dragtimes video:

A Taycan isn’t a Tesla though. It’s designed to be a performance car. I’d be surprised if the performance is degraded over time. That doesn’t seem like something that Porsche would stand for

[Eternalthinker]

My Taycan is on its way and should arrive in less than 2 weeks. My dealer gave me a loaner to try out for a week before ordering. What I would say is it is built like a Porsche. If I compare it to any of my Teslas, the one thing that is completely lacking is build quality in the T vs. P. Yes, the range could be more, but sufficient for regular use.

[HDMI]

Originally Posted by fgpalmer71

When I drove the Tesla's I walked away utterly amazed in all facets. I thought the lack of engine note would be a killer for me.....I couldn't stop grinning long enough to notice in the 30-45 min I spent with each one. At the time I had just gotten into my 2nd Genesis and the Model 3 Performance was a tad small while the Model S raven edition was WAY more then I was willing to shell out. But, I told myslef I'd have one when the time came and I would definitely DD that thing. It made my gas powered cars seem totally outdated and completely irrelevant some how. The tech....the performance....I absolutely love those white interiors and thuroughly enjoyed the fake leather. I was completely smitten with both of them. The ever present charging stations make it so I can drive from Indiana to see family in AZ......for free.

People supposedly buy Porsche products for the better QC and brand cache. Tesla is at the bottom in QC. I have a few friends with Tesla cars, a couple with multiples. None of them have had good experience regarding quality and reliability. Service is horrendous when they had to take them in. Customer service is nonexistent. Once Tesla has your money, you no longer exist. My friends bought the cars because according to them "nobody else has anything in the same category". They're all eagerly awaiting for competition so they'll jump ship. I suggest you check out the Tesla owners' forum.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Eternalthinker

My Taycan is on its way and should arrive in less than 2 weeks. My dealer gave me a loaner to try out for a week before ordering. What I would say is it is built like a Porsche. If I compare it to any of my Teslas, the one thing that is completely lacking is build quality in the T vs. P. Yes, the range could be more, but sufficient for regular use.

beautiful list of cars. are you trading in your 675 for a 765?

[bvrider1]

Maybe I am wrong but isn't performance and battery life indicative of each other?

Will the Taycan perform the same in 3-5 yrs? I doubt it unless you get a brand new battery.

I wonder if age of battery vs range is more applicable here?

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

A Taycan isn’t a Tesla though. It’s designed to be a performance car. I’d be surprised if the performance is degraded over time. That doesn’t seem like something that Porsche would stand for