[Humdizzle]

payback for silverstone. congrats to max.

i'm not sure what happened on that overtake. HAM acted like he was not expecting the dive bomb up the inside and then backed off once he saw VER next to him. It looked to me like he was ahead at corner entry and just gave up the position rather than holding his line.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by M2CS

MB didn't let their guard down, they would've won the race had it been handled the way same safety cars were handled in the past. They had no psychic ability to know that Masi was going to alter rules in RB's favor (neither did RB for that matter). If Masi didn't give a damn about rules and wanted a final lap showdown, he should've just red flagged the race and let HAM and MAX doing a standing start both on soft tires.

Can't agree. They did have the chance to pit HAM and put him on equal tires.

They gambled on the race not restarting, and they were wrong. Or, perhaps they thought HAM had enough pace left to manage over one lap even if it did restart. They opted to maintain track position.

Betting on a field of lapped cars between HAM and VER could not have been an element of their calculation. You'd never assume that. What you heard from Toto at the end was him trying to desperately cling to that final advantage.

I'm not trying to be overly harsh on Merc. Obviously, it wasn't a no brainer either way. But in the end HAM needed to be on softs and in the fight.

You saw how competitive he was during the final lap on nearly expired hards. I don't think VER would have had an answer.

[SteveChester]

Another shambles from Massi.

It's the job of the race director to enforce the rules as they are written down not to invent some new ones for the purpose of TV.

[GuidoK]

This is what I wrote in last' race topic on the Saudi Arabian GP where HAM was the lucky one :

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Although this is by far the most chaotic race we've had this year (and there have been quite a few chaotic ones ), I expect next one to maybe be even more chaotic and filled with drama

I feel I was right back then..

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

payback for silverstone. congrats to max.

i'm not sure what happened on that overtake. HAM acted like he was not expecting the dive bomb up the inside and then backed off once he saw VER next to him. It looked to me like he was ahead at corner entry and just gave up the position rather than holding his line.

Lewis was on cold hards with 40+ laps of mileage, Max was on fresher mediums. Even if he closed the inside, he wouldn't have been able to defend the next straight due to loss in cornering speed. If Lewis and Max crashed out, Max would have won the WDC.

I think Lewis bet on Max not making the corner by giving up the inside and taking a better line for the exit.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by Merami fan

The safety car incident was handled strangely, at least according to what appears to be the letter of the law (rule book). It makes sense from a racing standpoint, though. Unlucky for Lewis, maybe. Still very lucky overall this season.

Just gonna leave these reminders here for anyone who thinks Lewis deserved the title based on today alone... (also refer to lap 1 today)

Lewis did deserve the title. If you want to go back in the past, why did you not post the videos of Max hitting Ham at Monza or Max's dirty moves at Brazil and Saudi?

Fact is Max and Ham started the race today equal on points. The championship was to be decided by their performance today. Lewis was the superior driver today, Mercedes had the superior car. They had the race won. RB was given the win by Masi, that's how this will be remembered. All the racing incidents earlier in the season mean nothing when it comes to the rules being altered for the final laps of the season to only benefit one team.

[________]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Can't agree. They did have the chance to pit HAM and put him on equal tires.

They gambled on the race not restarting, and they were wrong. Or, perhaps they thought HAM had enough pace left to manage over one lap even if it did restart. They opted to maintain track position.

Betting on a field of lapped cars between HAM and VER could not have been an element of their calculation. You'd never assume that. What you heard from Toto at the end was him trying to desperately cling to that final advantage.

I'm not trying to be overly harsh on Merc. Obviously, it wasn't a no brainer either way. But in the end HAM needed to be on softs and in the fight.

You saw how competitive he was during the final lap on nearly expired hards. I don't think VER would have had an answer.

In your mind, then, the right call was for Lewis to pit, end up behind Max, and sit behind the safety car waiting for the restart to regain the position?

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Can't agree. They did have the chance to pit HAM and put him on equal tires.

They gambled on the race not restarting, and they were wrong. Or, perhaps they thought HAM had enough pace left to manage over one lap even if it did restart. They opted to maintain track position.

Betting on a field of lapped cars between HAM and VER could not have been an element of their calculation. You'd never assume that. What you heard from Toto at the end was him trying to desperately cling to that final advantage.

I'm not trying to be overly harsh on Merc. Obviously, it wasn't a no brainer either way. But in the end HAM needed to be on softs and in the fight.

You saw how competitive he was during the final lap on nearly expired hards. I don't think VER would have had an answer.

But wasn't it? I'll have to watch it again because everything was happening so fast but yes track position was one factor, the other factor was the cars between VER and HAM. Either they were going to be there between them when racing resumed or all lapped cars would need to pass but that would have taken too long and the race would have ended.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by Onesie

In your mind, then, the right call was for Lewis to pit, end up behind Max, and sit behind the safety car waiting for the restart to regain the position?

Not only that, if MB pitted and ended up behind Max, who's the say the safety car would've even ended? They would've let the race end on the SC and Max would've won. If fact, that's what MB would've had to assume would happen because that is most likely scenario according to the rules.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Onesie

In your mind, then, the right call was for Lewis to pit, end up behind Max, and sit behind the safety car waiting for the restart to regain the position?

Pretty clearly, in hindsight. Max wouldn't have had an answer between T5 and T6. Or, if not there, the next passing zone. HAM's pace was different league today.

One driver was given a final equipment advantage to go hunt and win the wdc, and that's what happened.

[kyrix1st]

Hats off to Max for resisting temptations to torpedo Lewis the whole race though.
I honestly thought Prost v. Senna in Suzuka would replay in lap 1.

[yco]

wish i could congrat Max and Red Bull for deserving a title.. but how regulations were followed just put dark shadow on this title..

if those 4-5 cars will be allowed to pass through they had to join back of the queue.. FIA chosen "show" over what everyone agreed to follow through..

FIA handed over Max a tittle.. this year hasnt ended in a fair way.. and the funny part even cry baby FIA hater Horner says "we trust in FIA".. you can understand how twisted things are now..

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Pretty clearly, in hindsight. Max wouldn't have had an answer between T5 and T6. Or, if not there, the next passing zone. HAM's pace was different league today.

One driver was given a final equipment advantage to go hunt and win the wdc, and that's what happened.

Huh? Max had a equipment advantage at the start of the season to go hunt and win the wdc. That's how F1 works. Teams are always looking to improve their cars to give their drivers an advantage. MB did an amazing job dialing their car in at the end of the season, RB couldn't match it.

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by yco

wish i could congrat Max and Red Bull for deserving a title.. but how regulations were followed just put dark shadow on this title..

if those 4-5 cars will be allowed to pass through they had to join back of the queue.. FIA chosen "show" over what everyone agree to follow through..

FIA handed over Max a tittle.. this year hasnt ended in a fair way.. and the funny part even cry baby FIA hater Horner says "we trust in FIA".. you can understand how twisted things are now..

I love this argument. If this season was 100% fair, it would have been over already before this race had even started

[________]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Pretty clearly, in hindsight. Max wouldn't have had an answer between T5 and T6. Or, if not there, the next passing zone. HAM's pace was different league today.

One driver was given a final equipment advantage to go hunt and win the wdc, and that's what happened.

Ok then. Your premise holds no water, just look at lap 1, if you repeat a single lap, it's not enough for a pass.
And no one would've expected the safety car to let all pass if HAM was behind Max.

I'm not even sure why I'm debating with someone who starts his sentence with "in hindsight".
Hindsight means nothing. They did what they did with what they knew at the time. The idea of letting cars by eliminating advantage doesn't exist.
Before the safety car, HAM was 4 cars and 12 seconds ahead of VER. A safety car eliminates the 12 second advantage already. Making a radio call to eliminate the other traffic advantage is what's wrong, and the only comment I made when that happened was "this is just for show".

The headlines are nice, fantastic, a big SHOW.

That's not what F1 is. This is what Harlem globe trotters is for.
22 races. Not a last lap decision or photo finish.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

But wasn't it? I'll have to watch it again because everything was happening so fast but yes track position was one factor, the other factor was the cars between VER and HAM. Either they were going to be there between them when racing resumed or all lapped cars would need to pass but that would have taken too long and the race would have ended.

I just don't think so. Merc would not have been able to pre-calculate the speed of the cleanup and the unlapping process. The safe assumption would have been the race director will not want to end the race and wdc in this manner, we're going to go back racing.

Again, what you were hearing from Toto's radio message on that final lap was not the deterioration of their unlapped cars buffer strategy, but his desperate attempt to hang onto the only remaining advantage.

[Artemis]

IMHO July 17, 2021 was the pivotal moment of the 2021 season of the Hamilton - Verstappen / Mercedes AMG - Red Bull Racing 'feud': the first "Sprint" ever, held at the Silverstone circuit, featuring a laurel wreath for the winner + a victory lap in an open truck for P1, P2 and P3.

Hamilton lusted for that first ever "Sprint" victory before his home crowd. Verstappen lusted for that victory too, especially because it was before Hamilton's home crowd. Verstappen's victory must have tremendously hurt Hamilton, like a splinter in his mind. We all know what happened the next day: Verstappen and Hamilton both lusting hard for winning that race. Bold moves by both. Verstappen ended up in hospital after a 51G crash, Hamilton won the race and celebrated the victory abundantly.

That very "Sprint" event with all the symbolic decorum on July 17, 2021, was IMHO a prime example of a casus belli.

July 17, 2021 - Silverstone:









July 18, 2021 - Silverstone:

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

I just don't think so. Merc would not have been able to pre-calculate the speed of the cleanup and the unlapping process. The safe assumption would have been the race director will not want to end the race and wdc in this manner, we're going to go back racing.

Again, what you were hearing from Toto's radio message on that final lap was not the deterioration of their unlapped cars buffer strategy, but his desperate attempt to hang onto the only remaining advantage.

Resuming race wasn't really a question. It's what happened during the safety car, letting 5 cars in between Lewis and Max un-lap themselves, that's problematic.

[Bubbles]

Toto a bit too involved today, no? Veil has been lifted and begs the question what other Toto requests have been granted in the past. He seems quite comfortable issuing multiple requests.

He should have given his driver new tires to compete vs lobbying for no competition.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Huh? Max had a equipment advantage at the start of the season to go hunt and win the wdc. That's how F1 works. Teams are always looking to improve their cars to give their drivers an advantage. MB did an amazing job dialing their car in at the end of the season, RB couldn't match it.

That's not what I'm saying. By final equipment I mean soft tires.

But I agree with your overall season summary.

Originally Posted by Onesie

Ok then. Your premise holds no water, just look at lap 1, if you repeat a single lap, it's not enough for a pass.
And no one would've expected the safety car to let all pass if HAM was behind Max.

I'm not even sure why I'm debating with someone who starts his sentence with "in hindsight".
Hindsight means nothing. They did what they did with what they knew at the time. The idea of letting cars by eliminating advantage doesn't exist.
Before the safety car, HAM was 4 cars and 12 seconds ahead of VER. A safety car eliminates the 12 second advantage already. Making a radio call to eliminate the other traffic advantage is what's wrong, and the only comment I made when that happened was "this is just for show".

The headlines are nice, fantastic, a big SHOW.

That's not what F1 is. This is what Harlem globe trotters is for.
22 races. Not a last lap decision or photo finish.

No interest in acrimony, reciprocating your suggestion of undeserved discussion.

My mention of hindsight is merely an acknowledgment that the decision wasn't a no brainer at the time.

As it turns out, HAM needed to be on softs, as evidenced by the final result.

[Bartledoo]

“Noooo Mikey nooooooo” lol.

I can’t tell which was more miraculous for redbull - the Checo hold up or the safety car shenanigans….

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Lewis was on cold hards with 40+ laps of mileage, Max was on fresher mediums. Even if he closed the inside, he wouldn't have been able to defend the next straight due to loss in cornering speed. If Lewis and Max crashed out, Max would have won the WDC.

I think Lewis bet on Max not making the corner by giving up the inside and taking a better line for the exit.

Max had fresh Softs, merc still had great straight line pace.