BMW E46 M3 - Legend Eternal
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-15-2021, 01:18 PM   #1
JasonDot
Second Lieutenant
JasonDot's Avatar
580
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: M4, X3 and 330e
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Jaguar 100% electric after 2025

Top Gear Source

"The new boss of Jaguar (and Land Rover) Thierry Bolloré has today announced a big, shiny new plan with a really big, shiny new headline announcement: from 2025, Jaguar will only sell electric cars."

Bold move considering the iPace didn't so well, right!? Here is San Diego, Jaguar doesn't have a big footprint, how about in your area?

Name:  jaguar_silk_image_.jpg
Views: 1528
Size:  203.6 KB
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2021, 01:31 PM   #2
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

It's not difficult to see why this move makes sense for Jaguar. One could easily imagine their ICE vehicle business not making it past 2025 anyway. They have been cutting models left and right, and nothing in their current lineup achieves anything resembling impressive sales volume.

Hopefully Jaguar will find a way to incorporate an electric sports car into their future. They've a long history or making beautiful, exciting vehicles. Maybe the transition to electric power will help them achieve the reliability to go with that.
Appreciate 3
JasonDot579.50
AlexFL7833.00
David701567.00
      02-15-2021, 01:49 PM   #3
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

And they cancelled the XJ, very sad, always loved them, even the last one which was controversial in its looks.

Jaguar as a whole is a very interesting brand now because they hide in the shadow of LR. They were always about beautiful British sports cars, and now they are pretty much an SUV brand with the exception of the XF and F-Type, who's days are numbered in the US. Sadly Jaguar doesn't have the brand cache of its LR cousins who succeed based on looks and status alone. Luckily it seems they are trying to get back on track with the wonderful revisions they did to the F-Pace. Hopefully they continue this into their EV's and really make some more beautiful and competitive vehicles.
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2021, 05:22 PM   #4
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

If jaguar is still owned by Tata 2025. BY 2025 Jaguar may be a lower priced sub-brand of Bentley if I had to guess.
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2021, 05:36 PM   #5
Murf993
Major
Murf993's Avatar
14114
Rep
1,336
Posts

Drives: Porsche 993
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Dog Lake, South Frontenac, Ontario Canada

iTrader: (0)

That seems like sad news to me.
Appreciate 1
overcoil3068.50
      02-15-2021, 06:34 PM   #6
FinalRenegade
Private First Class
FinalRenegade's Avatar
Canada
207
Rep
199
Posts

Drives: M6 GranCoupe | Last Model Year
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
If jaguar is still owned by Tata 2025. BY 2025 Jaguar may be a lower priced sub-brand of Bentley if I had to guess.
VW owns Bentley though, Jag haven't made a vehicle to even compete with other Germans (Audi, MB, BMW) first, don't see them earning any praise in the future as a "luxury" automaker
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2021, 06:39 PM   #7
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalRenegade View Post
VW owns Bentley though, Jag haven't made a vehicle to even compete with other Germans (Audi, MB, BMW) first, don't see them earning any praise in the future as a "luxury" automaker
I think the F-Type competes well in the realm of sports cars. As for their other products, they were lacking in the interior department for quite some time, but the new facelifted F-Pace looks quite good and competitive and even has an I6 now. I'm hoping they continue this new design language into more products as I think its a much more attractive car inside and out now.

__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2021, 11:34 PM   #8
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
If jaguar is still owned by Tata 2025. BY 2025 Jaguar may be a lower priced sub-brand of Bentley if I had to guess.
The last thing VAG needs is more brands to manage. While they could theoretically let Bentley go, thereby leading to a tie-up with Jaguar under someone else’s control, that would be a heck of a left field scenario to predict right now unless you have some very nuanced inside info.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2021, 08:33 AM   #9
Alfisti
Brigadier General
6453
Rep
3,009
Posts

Drives: 2008 Saab 9-3 Combi
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

I will never understand why Jaguar struggle so much. This last generation, say last 10 years, the cars looked great and went hard, but the interiors were poor.
Appreciate 3
Murf99314114.00
Germanauto9665.50
Run Silent15127.00
      02-16-2021, 08:52 AM   #10
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

RIP XJ. It was so close to production ready too.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 1
mkoesel7505.50
      02-16-2021, 09:21 AM   #11
kyriian
Captain
kyriian's Avatar
872
Rep
680
Posts

Drives: 06 Black Sapphire Z4MR
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW X5  [0.00]
2011 Scion tC  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I will never understand why Jaguar struggle so much. This last generation, say last 10 years, the cars looked great and went hard, but the interiors were poor.
If I had to take a wild guess, their past shadow of bad reliability never left, even if the modern ones are good.

Consumers in this demographic generally goes to the Germans, and Brits just never seem to be able to establish themselves in this mid price luxury range.

Also, depreciation likely is a factor... It's unbelieveable how hard they drop after just a few years.

Agree it is a shame, XE, XF, F Type, F Pace are beautiful cars, and I actually like the I pace, thought of the F pace for the wife for awhile, but like most majority of consumer, the worry of reliability, and the need to likely visit specialists to fix it made me move away from them.

E pace on the other hand looks VERY odd.
__________________
Revolution of our Times

I will return to the track, one day.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2021, 09:36 AM   #12
cfm56d7b
Lieutenant General
United_States
5854
Rep
10,232
Posts

Drives: 2017 440i Gran Coupe & 2015 X5
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (2)

The transition to all-electric car portfolio is a huge bet for Jaguar, and for that matter any car manufacturer.

If executed correctly, Jaguar could create a profitable corner in the ever-becoming-more-competitive market segment.

Huge bets can succeed. I hope Jaguar understands that execution across many dimensions (not just design language) will be essential.

Of all the Jaguar vehicles, F Pace SVR is the most appealing to me.

The automotive world needs competition. I'd like to see Jaguar succeed.

If anyone from Jaguar is reading this thread, please take the time to examine the rise and fall of GM's 'other huge best' called Saturn. Disregarding the ICE engine for a moment, the rest of Saturn's story has many sobering lessons applicable even in today's world. The first one: huge bets led by individuals with questionable leadership skills rarely succeed.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2021, 03:07 PM   #13
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
RIP XJ. It was so close to production ready too.
Wow. I had to google your statement, because I was a sure you were confused.

I'd love to go into a Jaguar dealership this week and get a Xj, but reality prevents.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2021, 09:49 PM   #14
Germanauto
Major General
Germanauto's Avatar
United_States
9666
Rep
6,075
Posts

Drives: Alfa Romeo Giulia, Rosso
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

That has to be some serious mismanagement for them to have spent years and millions developing this new EV XJ only to cancel the project.

Jaguar has been an irrelevant company for the better part of 30 years. Hearing of ICE cars getting killed off saddens me, but maybe this is what Jaguar needs in order to reinvent themselves into a relevant automaker.
__________________
Former
-2008 E90 328 black/brown
-2012 Lexus IS250 black/black
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2021, 08:21 AM   #15
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
That has to be some serious mismanagement for them to have spent years and millions developing this new EV XJ only to cancel the project.
I think what doomed it is that it was not a dedicated EV, but instead relied upon a combined ICE/PHEV/BEV strategy (similar, incidentally, to what BMW intends to do). Since they've now decided that their business will be better served by exiting the ICE market in 2025, it did not make sense to release new ICE products in 2021 resulting in what would be much shorter lifespans than the business case originally planned for. In other words, the economics of the vehicle program fell apart.

This is not the last time we'll see this kind of "Oh shit! We mis-steered the ship!" reaction in the coming decade. Disruption is a ruthless foe. JLR is not out of the woods yet, but they've probably given themselves a fighting chance. Other lower volume players may need to make similar moves, and/or consider mergers.
Appreciate 1
Germanauto9665.50
      02-18-2021, 08:38 AM   #16
David70
Colonel
United_States
1567
Rep
2,665
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Interesting to see how poorly Jaguar is doing now. When Tata purchased them from Ford people kept saying how this was how it should have been done and Ford was the problem, now they seem to back on the path to not existing. Having a car almost completed and deciding to can it is a massive mistake.

I think the EV market will be tough for manufacturers like Jaguar. The problem is when you read a review on the drivetrain it is range and acceleration only. No transmission and the completely silent emotionless electric motor make it hard to love or hate any drivetrain. The differentiators between a Jaguar/MB/BMW/Audi or the more mainstream brands are only getting smaller and the low volume higher cost of the smaller brands make it difficult to survive. I have doubts about how BMW will survive long term against someone like VW/Audi as the scale of their production is so much better.
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete

Last edited by David70; 02-18-2021 at 09:03 AM..
Appreciate 1
lakefront560.50
      02-18-2021, 01:19 PM   #17
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Interesting to see how poorly Jaguar is doing now. When Tata purchased them from Ford people kept saying how this was how it should have been done and Ford was the problem, now they seem to back on the path to not existing. Having a car almost completed and deciding to can it is a massive mistake.

I think the EV market will be tough for manufacturers like Jaguar. The problem is when you read a review on the drivetrain it is range and acceleration only. No transmission and the completely silent emotionless electric motor make it hard to love or hate any drivetrain. The differentiators between a Jaguar/MB/BMW/Audi or the more mainstream brands are only getting smaller and the low volume higher cost of the smaller brands make it difficult to survive. I have doubts about how BMW will survive long term against someone like VW/Audi as the scale of their production is so much better.
You bring up a lot of good points.
Some time back, maybe late 2020, Toyota CEO commented on how pure electric car were ‘hype’. I think the infrastructure to charge and where the masses of people park their cars leaves a lot of questions for pure electric vehicles. And are we being over confident that batteries can increase in ‘useful’ range and decrease in ‘acceptable’ charge times.

And compare a BMW X3 or Mercedes E-class All-Terrain wagon to other similar vehicles in those price range and the BMW and MB products are very high quality.

If mild hybrid through small batteries and double duty starter motors could allow pure electric propulsion in city centers for a majority of inner city vehicles and we keep up with ever increasing emissions standards for ICE engines. Then having consumer choice and not outlawing ICE, which at this point can always be rescinded in jurisdictions that propose ICE bans, then most manufacturers can stay viable.

Maybe with the pandemic personal vehicles commutes will be a better choice than public transportation.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2021, 05:06 PM   #18
IllSic_Design
Colonel
IllSic_Design's Avatar
United_States
2123
Rep
2,758
Posts

Drives: 09 E92 335i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
That has to be some serious mismanagement for them to have spent years and millions developing this new EV XJ only to cancel the project.

Jaguar has been an irrelevant company for the better part of 30 years. Hearing of ICE cars getting killed off saddens me, but maybe this is what Jaguar needs in order to reinvent themselves into a relevant automaker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I think what doomed it is that it was not a dedicated EV, but instead relied upon a combined ICE/PHEV/BEV strategy (similar, incidentally, to what BMW intends to do). Since they've now decided that their business will be better served by exiting the ICE market in 2025, it did not make sense to release new ICE products in 2021 resulting in what would be much shorter lifespans than the business case originally planned for. In other words, the economics of the vehicle program fell apart.

This is not the last time we'll see this kind of "Oh shit! We mis-steered the ship!" reaction in the coming decade. Disruption is a ruthless foe. JLR is not out of the woods yet, but they've probably given themselves a fighting chance. Other lower volume players may need to make similar moves, and/or consider mergers.
It was killed for a mix of old platform, at capacity for facility that builds those platforms, can't build at other facilities, etc.. Here's the article that explains it pretty well; https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...e-last-minute/
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2021, 05:44 PM   #19
overcoil
Major General
3069
Rep
5,577
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllSic_Design View Post
It was killed for a mix of old platform, at capacity for facility that builds those platforms, can't build at other facilities, etc.. Here's the article that explains it pretty well; https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...e-last-minute/
That explanation surely can't be evidence of a company that has their sh-t together.
Appreciate 1
      02-18-2021, 06:22 PM   #20
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllSic_Design View Post
It was killed for a mix of old platform, at capacity for facility that builds those platforms, can't build at other facilities, etc.. Here's the article that explains it pretty well; https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...e-last-minute/
Thanks for posting that.

So, Jaguar no longer has the production capacity to build vehicles on their combined EV/ICE MLA vehicle architecture that the XJ was based on. And the primary reason for that is, with the decision to go all electric by 2025, they need to redirect that capacity to build vehicles on the dedicated EV EMA architecture.

At any rate, the mixed powertrain strategy is what ultimately killed it. Hindsight is 20/20, but it sure is a shame that Jaguar didn't go all in on the XJ and engineer it around the EMA architecture to begin with. That wouldn't guarantee success - as pointed out in the article, it's a very competitive market segment - but assuming the range was there they might have had an interesting competitor to the Model S, Air, and EQS.

It's going to be interesting to see, as EV sales climb over the next few years, whether sedans are able to claw back market share from SUVs. Theoretically, the SUV/sedan mix in the overall market shouldn't be influenced much by drive type. Will it hold practice, though?
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2021, 06:43 PM   #21
AlexFL
Brigadier General
7833
Rep
4,607
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Let’s face it. The only way any British car manufacturer can survive long term is by being wholly owned by a German giant. Sorry, my British fellows, but this is the truth.
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2021, 01:49 PM   #22
stein_325i
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
stein_325i's Avatar
No_Country
25051
Rep
8,761
Posts

Drives: A Car
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: All-Around

iTrader: (0)

New Jaguar EV's are going Upmarket

Jaguar Allegedly Turning Into Aston Martin And Bentley Competitor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor1
Big changes are afoot at Jaguar because the brand intends to sell only EVs by 2025. In addition, the British brand's next generation of products could take a step higher in the market by competing against the likes of Bentley and Aston Martin, according to Jaguar Land Rover CEO Thierry Bollore in Automotive News Europe.

"We will reposition completely the Jaguar brand," Bollore said. "The SUV will be Land Rover. Jaguar will be different from the SUVs. Very distinct."

The new brand strategy for Jaguar includes not replacing any of its current models when they reach the end of their production runs. The company will invest £2.5 billion ($3.48 billion at the current exchange rates) into EV tech and to develop a new vehicle architecture for these models. This platform will be exclusive to the Jaguar brand and won't be underneath future Land Rovers.

Bollore also offered some more details about the decision to axe the next generation of the XJ, despite it appearing to be nearly ready for production in spy shots (above). He said the sedan didn't meet Jaguar's new "Modern Luxury" brand identity. "The XJ replacement was not fitting with that new positioning," Bollore told Automotive News Europe.

Jaguar announced the plan not to produce the new XJ at the same time it outlined the new EV strategy. "Although the nameplate may be retained, the planned Jaguar XJ replacement will not form part of the line-up, as the brand looks to realize its unique potential," the automaker stated.

You can also expect the next generation of Jags to look quite a bit different because of the automaker's new chief creative officer Gerry McGovern. "I'm savoring the thought of helping my Jaguar colleagues to bring Jaguar back to the position it deserves. It's a unique brand with incredible pedigree and a lot of potential," McGovern said in a recent interview. "If it could be developed in a way that freed it from some of the constraints it has had in the past, I think it could be wonderful again."
__________________
Current Garage: 2022 Mercedes-Benz S 580 / 2023 Genesis GV70 2.5T / 2007 Mercedes-Benz E 350 / 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Retired: '95 E36 325i 5MT / '04 E46 330i 6MT / '05 E83 X3 3.0i / '11 E90 335xi / '17 G30 540i / '19 F87 M2C 6MT / '19 MB CLS 53 / '20 MB GLC 300
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:26 AM.




e46m3
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST