08-07-2020, 12:39 PM | #24 | |
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Even with the Tesla great motor, the power delivery from every electric motor is strong, silent and vibration free. I wonder about differentiation. A Ferrari, BMW and Honda electric motor, not picturing how I will know or care what the difference will be from a drivers standpoint. At some point I wonder if every manufacturer will build their own electric motor or instead go the route of transmissions where they share them (Ford/GM), or buy from a supplier (ZF). If customers can't tell any difference, why bother?
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08-07-2020, 12:44 PM | #25 |
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Let's hope. In the US at least, all Tesla competitors like the iPace and E-Tron have lackluster sales and Mercedes EQC is still missing in action and likely to not come to the US. Hopefully BMW will do things right.
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08-07-2020, 02:00 PM | #26 |
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Yet another BMW with an ugly front.
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08-07-2020, 02:17 PM | #27 |
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08-07-2020, 02:19 PM | #28 | |
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The better question would be whether this model is built to accommodate traditional drivetrains like G26 was. The answer is no. |
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08-07-2020, 02:24 PM | #29 | |
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Yes, CLAR. BMW does not yet have a scaleable dedicated electric platform. They have the i3's platform, but unfortunately it cannot scale and will not be reused.
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08-07-2020, 02:33 PM | #30 |
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I don't have to tear an ICE down to tell the differences in them. Even similar 2.0T's have a lot of variation in them, from redline to smoothness to the power band.
I bought my Z4M because of the endines 8000 rpm redline inline six. I don't believe I will ever make a similar statement about an electric motor. Take a new Ferrari and compare it to a new Honda or even a similar hp Ford, engine is radically better in the Ferrari. I don't see how they plan to make their electric motor radically better than the competition in the future.
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08-07-2020, 02:39 PM | #31 | ||
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I remember reading a Jalopnik article which really made me question BMW's current EV choices. The previous CEO was fired due to a slow transition into EV's and not being dedicated to them, and it seems like the new CEO is following the same strategy just with more models within the next couple of years. Seems like a case of BMW being cheap if anything, which also makes sense being that the new CEO's top priorities lie in bringing more profits in. According to the Bloomberg Tesla Survey, the second most traded in vehicle (after the Prius) for a Model 3 was a 3-series, and of all the brands as a whole, BMW was the most affected negatively, I personally think now is not the time for BMW to cheap out. https://jalopnik.com/bmws-new-ceo-is...got-1836597860 https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...evolution.html
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08-07-2020, 02:57 PM | #33 | ||
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Another important upcoming factor will be the number of moving parts in the drive system. This one has four: https://lordstownmotors.com/pages/tech Of course, hub motors are far from proven in real world car/truck applications, and they have the drawback of increasing unsprung weight (by more than 100% using current state of the art tech). But if this type of system proves to meet customer demands, continues to be refined, and proliferates, well, you can also count single speed step-down transmissions, differentials and half shafts among your mechanical casualties as well. All of this, by the way, is happening for the same reason that your phone went from being a messy keypad with a bunch of buttons you don't care about and a postage stamp screen to just screen with no buttons (almost - they'll all be gone soon) - humans want shit to be simple because we hate f**king around with fiddly nonsense that has forty ways it might break at any moment. That desire - which is rooted in increasing quality of life - for the vast majority of us, trumps any nostalgia for obsolete technology. Quote:
Still, even if we took every ICE vehicle on the market and gave them all the best engine/transmission in their class, consumers would find plenty of reasons to prefer one make/model over another. Expect that to continue to be the case in the era of electric and increasingly automated vehicles. Even if we are saying the industry is shifting toward appliances, plenty of folks are going to want the appliance with the BMW badge, right? |
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08-07-2020, 03:14 PM | #34 | |
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As for efficiency, once range is acceptable for what I need, not sure why I care if one motor is more efficient. Refueling cost is irrelevant, performance for both is close. Going 0-60 in 3.5 seconds in my family SUV or 3.2 seconds? You said Hyundai has the most efficient motors, not sure why the average buyer cares, hopefully range is better? With the phone analogy, you're correct, phones made rapid developments to where we are now but at this point I don't care nearly as much who's phone I buy or care that much about the latest and greatest. Phone manufacturers are finding it harder and harder to get people to upgrade with new models. As for the "plenty of folks are going to want the appliance with the BMW badge". Badge buyers will always be there but if you are looking for substance the differentiation continues to drop. My wife cares about all the features a car has and her Acura TSX (new at $32k) has more than most BMW's so she it out. I like RWD cars (requiring luxury cars) because of the driving dynamics, I won't be stepping into a BMW dealership just for the badge. Each time you make two vehicles closer to the same (a BMW/Hyundai/Honda) the differentiation goes down and it becomes more difficult to sell them. I think BMW makes the best 2.0T available, good luck on the next electric motor (if I can tell).
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08-07-2020, 03:14 PM | #35 | |
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08-07-2020, 03:32 PM | #36 | ||
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Show an ICE to an alien who only knows electric motors. Ask them to explain what it is and how it works without opening it up. Quote:
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08-07-2020, 03:40 PM | #37 | |
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08-07-2020, 03:51 PM | #38 | |
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08-07-2020, 03:52 PM | #39 |
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08-07-2020, 03:55 PM | #40 | ||
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I'm not disagreeing with your hypothesis. For car guys like us, something gets lost. I don't think it's got nearly the same impact for the average consumer. The end result is that while the game changes, the game also stays the same - the marketing song and dance to groom customers, the creation of value via new tech, the product development process all continues to be what it is. Enthusiasts might have less of real substance to argue about in forums like this one, but target customers are still going to be swayed or not swayed based on what ticks the boxes and tickles their fancy. Sure, there are objective features that you and I may care about, but it's an emotional decision at its core and it's going to continue to be. It's why some car guy might argue the superiority of BMW's B48 engine with his wife until he's blue in the face, but she's still going to pick the Lexus for her reasons (probably involving being subconsciously woo'd by some racy Facebook ad or some such). |
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08-07-2020, 04:42 PM | #42 |
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08-07-2020, 04:50 PM | #43 |
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08-07-2020, 08:53 PM | #44 |
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I disagree, as I think the Tesla Model S is the most beautiful car on the road and I am a BMW guide. I agree on the Model 3 front end however.
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