[buckybadger]

Think of an M2 as a car that went to the gym and after 3 years came out as M2 CS. It will never be a hardcore super car, BUT it is close enough, with few sensible sacrifices which don't hurt daily driving.

For me, personally the competition models are the best balance of daily practicality and fun. The CS just takes that a notch up for an extra $20K plus, and for some they don't mind shelling that much out.

Basically, the CS is targeting the hardcore BMW fanatics. I love BMW but I'm not crazy in love.

So if you are crazy in love with the CS, go get it!

At the end, even a regular 3 series is an overpriced family sedan, we still want it though!

To add to this drama, I won't be surprised if the next 2022 M2C comes out with more weight savings and adaptive dampers, and having all the tech that the current M2 CS has for $70K. It might even have the new engine, better steering and chassis tuning. I'm just saying, BMW would want to continue to improve their best performance car.

Let's just hope it's a RWD (not FWD) German built car.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

Think of an M2 as a car that went to the gym and after 3 years came out as M2 CS. It will never be a hardcore super car, BUT it is close enough, with few sensible sacrifices which don't hurt daily driving.

For me, personally the competition models are the best balance of daily practicality and fun. The CS just takes that a notch up for an extra $20K plus, and for some they don't mind shelling that much out.

Basically, the CS is targeting the hardcore BMW fanatics. I love BMW but I'm not crazy in love.

So if you are crazy in love with the CS, go get it!

At the end, even a regular 3 series is an overpriced family sedan, will still want it though!

To add to this drama, I won't be surprised if the next 2022 M2C comes out with more weight savings and adaptive dampers, and having all the tech that the current M2 CS has for $70K. It might even have the new engine, better steering and chassis tuning. I'm just saying, BMW would want to continue to improve their best performance car.

Let's just hope it's a RWD (not FWD) German built car.

Mostly agree with you but..

2022/(2023) M2C in my view:
Weighing less < 20% chance
Adaptive dampers 50% chance
New Engine > 80% chance
Better Steering 50% chance
Better chassis tuning >70% chance
German < 10% chance (Mexico)

So likely the usual with each generation - faster, more capable, fatter, and more disconnected.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

2022/(2023) M2C in my view:
New Engine > 80% chance

• dusk: the S55 engine (US spec M2C (model 2U73) ends production this June - final curtain call for the S55 engine and M-DCT transmission);
• dawn: the S58 engine.

[Debtm3]

Originally Posted by Romo

M2CS is a sporty car, far too refined and heavy for a pure sports car.

Its is relatively quiet, you sit fairly high, more on it than in it.

It lacks the raw character, the purity of the GT4

The difference is night and day. If I switch to the CS it feels like a Rolls Royce compared to the GT4

But what do I know

I owned a gt3rs and the cs can’t compare. But I prefer the fun of the cs over my 992 turbo s..

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

Think of an M2 as a car that went to the gym and after 3 years came out as M2 CS. It will never be a hardcore super car, BUT it is close enough, with few sensible sacrifices which don't hurt daily driving.

For me, personally the competition models are the best balance of daily practicality and fun. The CS just takes that a notch up for an extra $20K plus, and for some they don't mind shelling that much out.

Basically, the CS is targeting the hardcore BMW fanatics. I love BMW but I'm not crazy in love.

So if you are crazy in love with the CS, go get it!

At the end, even a regular 3 series is an overpriced family sedan, we still want it though!

To add to this drama, I won't be surprised if the next 2022 M2C comes out with more weight savings and adaptive dampers, and having all the tech that the current M2 CS has for $70K. It might even have the new engine, better steering and chassis tuning. I'm just saying, BMW would want to continue to improve their best performance car.

Let's just hope it's a RWD (not FWD) German built car.

Weight savings in the G87? It's not looking good in that department.

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Weight savings in the G87? It's not looking good in that department.

Like I said, you never know!

[Alpine*]

I just look at the BMW history, I don’t recall a new model ever being lighter or smaller.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Alpine*

I just look at the BMW history, I don't recall a new model ever being lighter or smaller.

The F80 with its carbon core frame, liberal use of forged aluminum and some lighter wheels and carbon fiber driveshaft, weighted like 150lbs less than its predecessor, the E92 M3.

For the record, pound for pound, the CS is also slightly lighter than the Competition..

.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Alpine*

I just look at the BMW history, I don't recall a new model ever being lighter or smaller.

The F80 was a major effort. Carbon strut brace, drive tunnel. Some of these were walked back in later years but Biemerman went all out. Clearly he had to go

[pz619]

Well let’s hear it from bmw. Sporty Car.

“ Tromans’ thread includes all sorts of fun little details like BMW’s insistence that, despite all the M cars, the company had never made a “sports car” since the BMW M1”

Excerpt taken from here
https://jalopnik.com/heres-the-story...n-i-1834749127

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by pz619

Well let's hear it from bmw. Sporty Car.

" Tromans' thread includes all sorts of fun little details like BMW's insistence that, despite all the M cars, the company had never made a "sports car" since the BMW M1"

Excerpt taken from here
https://jalopnik.com/heres-the-story...n-i-1834749127

I noticed the article repeatedly quotes and uses the term 'pure sports car'.

And that is the rub. There are many who hold narrow definitions of 'pure' sports cars. Even for these folks there are other 'not so pure' sports cars as well.

As someone often steeped in semantics and legalistic terminology - this discussion seems pretty inconsequential. Really, who cares? Would the answer to 'sports' or 'sporty' change our buying decision or which car we're going to drive this afternoon? Next thread...

[Alpine*]

Originally Posted by Poochie

The F80 with its carbon core frame, liberal use of forged aluminum and some lighter wheels and carbon fiber driveshaft, weighted like 150lbs less than its predecessor, the E92 M3.

For the record, pound for pound, the CS is also slightly lighter than the Competition..

.

Ok got me on the E92 weight, it still getting bigger however. Funny thing was iirc the beautiful smooth n/a V8 was and is lighter than an S55.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Alpine*

Ok got me on the E92 weight, it still getting bigger however. Funny thing was iirc the beautiful smooth n/a V8 was and is lighter than an S55.

No competition, just merely pointing out the fact that the main reason some newer BMW are heavier, with every passing generation, is due to their need to keep the cost down and still comply with modern safety standards and larger crumple zones, that add to the vehicle's overall weight -- unless you wouldn't mind a driving a deathtrap with a Zero-Star Safety rating, just to keep it lite and still cheap.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

As someone often steeped in semantics and legalistic terminology - this discussion seems pretty inconsequential. Really, who cares? Would the answer to 'sports' or 'sporty' change our buying decision or which car you're going to drive this afternoon? Next thread...

Wikipedia:

"Attributing the definition of 'sports car' to any particular model can be controversial or the subject of debate among enthusiasts.
[...]
The BMW 2 Series coupe and convertible were introduced in 2013 to sit below the larger BMW 4 Series models, with the new BMW M2 high-performance model introduced in 2015."
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car)

Quod erat demonstrandum...

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Next thread...

"My wife is damn hot."

Feel free to prove me wrong (but I'll veto "Pics or it didn't happen !").

[Alpine*]

Originally Posted by Poochie

No competition, just merely pointing out the fact that the main reason some newer BMW are heavier, with every passing generation, is due to their need to keep the cost down and still comply with modern safety standards and larger crumple zones, that add to the vehicle's overall weight -- unless you wouldn't mind a driving a deathtrap with a Zero-Star Safety rating, just to keep it lite and still cheap.

All good bro

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

Think of an M2 as a car that went to the gym and after 3 years came out as M2 CS!

When I read ^^^^ I thought of vvvv

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

To add to this drama, I won't be surprised if the next 2022 M2C comes out with more weight savings and adaptive dampers, and having all the tech that the current M2 CS has for $70K. It might even have the new engine, better steering and chassis tuning. I'm just saying, BMW would want to continue to improve their best performance car.

This isn’t Porsche it’s BMW we are talking about. Don’t count on it.

[fastcars]

Originally Posted by Alpine*

I just look at the BMW history, I don’t recall a new model ever being lighter or smaller.

The M3 CRT weighs 1580kg.

I just happen to know that there is one in Sydney.

[Alpine*]

Originally Posted by fastcars

The M3 CRT weighs 1580kg.

I just happen to know that there is one in Sydney.

Now that’s a unicorn imo !!! Love them, thought there were none in Aus (via bmw at least), must be a personal import or something. Cooool

Worth a view.

[fastcars]

Originally Posted by Alpine*

Now that’s a unicorn imo !!! Love them, thought there were none in Aus (via bmw at least), must be a personal import or something. Cooool

Worth a view.

Yes it is a personal import and it's RHD. Also there are 2 x M3 GTS's one RHD and one LHD.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by fastcars

The M3 CRT weighs 1580kg.
I just happen to know that there is one in Sydney.

Originally Posted by Alpine*

Now that’s a unicorn imo !!! Love them, thought there were none in Aus (via bmw at least), must be a personal import or something. Cooool
Worth a view.

Originally Posted by fastcars

Yes it is a personal import and it's RHD. Also there are 2 x M3 GTS's one RHD and one LHD.

That car is a true "limited edition":

Originally Posted by Artemis

I know a Belgian BMW M dealer who still has for sale #31 of the 68 E90 M3 CRT that BMW M ever built (at least when I asked about it in the past - it has been on display inside the showroom for countless years: "hopefully someday someone wants to buy it").

BMW kept the pre-production #00, so 67 cars made it to BMW M dealerships: #01 to #67). First hand low mileage car (never sold to a customer yet).

(source: here)

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Alpine*

I just look at the BMW history, I don’t recall a new model ever being lighter or smaller.

Well, it's no secret that BMW did quite some surgery on the E46 M3 to develop the E46 M3 CSL, shaving off 110 kg (1495 kg reduced to 1385 kg), never called it "limited edition" and made 1383 cars (see for example here, here and here).


And then there is also the art of figures management that had to be adjusted because of new regulations, requiring car weight figures to be more realistic (no longer the weight figure of a stripped Porsche with PCCB, manual transmission and without airco, without SATNAV & radio, etc. to push down the weight figure to the minimum level - a minimum weight configuration that only very few customers spec):

Originally Posted by Artemis

On a general note, beware about official weight figures from the past: rules for car weight figures have been tightened. In the past most high performance car manufacturers perfected the art of listing the lowest weight possible with car configurations that almost no customer chose, for low weight bragging rights purposes. Regulations forced the car industry to indicate more realistic figures as regards car weight, fuel consumption, range and CO2 emissions.

For a good example, see here:

As a consequence, it's almost inevitable that the G87 M2 weight figure will be higher - at least on paper - than the F87 M2 6MT weight figure (1495 kg) or M2C 6MT weight figure (1550 kg) (or as I noted in the past: "S55 = Supplementary 55 kg" ).

A 4-cyl layout could save weight (and for the F87 M2 BMW has also toyed with that idea at some point in time many moons ago), but it's gonna be 6-cyl again. From 6-cyl to 4-cyl: Porsche gave it a shot with the 718 Cayman, but all fancy marketing could not convince and Porsche re-introduced the 6-cyl for the 718 Cayman.

Originally Posted by Artemis

Regulations call the shots. All high performance car brands struggle in finding ways. Expect more added sound effects inside the cabin space.

Let's be happy that BMW did not nick 2 cylinders, as Porsche initially did with the 718 Cayman flat-4, and was required to claw back with the 718 GT4, 718 Spyder and 718 GTS 4.0.

Listen again (00:00-00:20 and 02:07-06:27):