BMW E46 M3 - Legend Eternal
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
E46 M3 Coupe and Convertible Forum General E46 M3 Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-25-2016, 11:32 AM   #45
robbys3m3
Lieutenant Colonel
1941
Rep
1,552
Posts

Drives: M3's
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK

iTrader: (1)

in many ways my e46 is my favorite of the m's we own..i feel like it's really good at a lot of things, and has the best lines of them all. I found a clean car with 39k miles set up how I wanted it for a good price, so I bought even though it was smg. the smg tune helped dramatically for low cost, but I knew going in that if it blew up id do a manual swap and not mess with the smg replacements.
__________________
2020 M2 CS, 2018 M3 CS, 2016 M4 GTS, 2013 M3 LRP, 2011 1M, 2011 M3 GTRS3, 2004 M3, 2002 M3, 2000 M Coupe, 2002 M5, 1997 M3, 1988 M3, 2022 STO, 2020 Urus, 2022 TRX, 2022 392, 2021 SVJ, 2018 Performante, 2013 Gallardo 550-2, 2012 Gallardo STS, 2018 R8 RWS, 2012 R8, 2017 G550 4X4^2, 2015 GT3, 2015 Continental GT3R, 1971 Bronco
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2016, 06:00 PM   #46
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pshep138 View Post
Not really, for a low mileage 6MT ZCP. Those things are trading like gold right now.

There was just one on M3Forum, IB/cloth, SMG, something like 48k miles and he had it listed at $36k. The car sold.
That's nuts. I wouldn't be able to fetch that for my MZ4 Coupe and it's got less mileage. And there's only 1,700 of them here in North America vs. probably 10-15 times more M3s.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2016, 08:47 PM   #47
323tom
Private
17
Rep
89
Posts

Drives: turbo e46's/2013 x5m
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Wow your line up of vehicles is impressive sir!
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbys3m3 View Post
in many ways my e46 is my favorite of the m's we own..i feel like it's really good at a lot of things, and has the best lines of them all. I found a clean car with 39k miles set up how I wanted it for a good price, so I bought even though it was smg. the smg tune helped dramatically for low cost, but I knew going in that if it blew up id do a manual swap and not mess with the smg replacements.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 07:39 AM   #48
robbys3m3
Lieutenant Colonel
1941
Rep
1,552
Posts

Drives: M3's
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 323tom View Post
Wow your line up of vehicles is impressive sir!
Thx!
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 09:27 AM   #49
derryck
Captain
United_States
57
Rep
879
Posts

Drives: 2009 335 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Florida

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
That's nuts. I wouldn't be able to fetch that for my MZ4 Coupe and it's got less mileage. And there's only 1,700 of them here in North America vs. probably 10-15 times more M3s.

Agree...that's nuts especially because it's an SMG car. I had an 03 w/ SMG for about a month before I traded it for a 6 speed...almost nobody wants an SMG E46 M.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 10:10 AM   #50
Mr Pete
Major
Mr Pete's Avatar
No_Country
1596
Rep
1,000
Posts

Drives: 997 GT3 4.1, Golf R (daily)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: AZ

iTrader: (1)

It seems that if an M3 is Interlagos Blue and a manual, it sells for a premium. I'm torn on the $31k M3. Its in decent shape, but PPI shows rear rotors, rear bushings and some minor other things need to be replaced. And various minor cosmetic issues, like the rubber trim at the bottom of the windshield needs replacing (cracking). But...its Interlagos Blue and 6 speed!
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 10:16 AM   #51
pshep138
Private First Class
pshep138's Avatar
United_States
177
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: 2020 M4 Competition
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Omaha

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M4 ZCP  [10.00]
2015 Audi S4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWGroceryGetter View Post
It seems that if an M3 is Interlagos Blue and a manual, it sells for a premium. I'm torn on the $31k M3. Its in decent shape, but PPI shows rear rotors, rear bushings and some minor other things need to be replaced. And various minor cosmetic issues, like the rubber trim at the bottom of the windshield needs replacing (cracking). But...its Interlagos Blue and 6 speed!
IB brings a premium, because you could only get it in '05 - '06, and only on the ZCP. That, and because it's just flat out a beautiful color.

Rear trailing arm bushing (RTAB) failure on E46 M3s is very common, as is the windshield cowl cracking. I replaced my cowl on my car with an OE BMW piece (P/N 51718232894), it cost roughly $100 shipped to my door and took maybe 20 minutes to install. RTABs are a little more involved, but not much.

Personally, I would not let such small items put me off of a car I felt very strongly about. Rear discs may be a different story, because the ZCP has different rotors than the base car that are costly to replace.
Appreciate 1
      05-26-2016, 10:49 AM   #52
P1
Lieutenant General
P1's Avatar
11542
Rep
11,128
Posts

Drives: 2004 3/4 ton Duramax
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Out of curiosity, what are these going for these days?
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 10:59 AM   #53
pshep138
Private First Class
pshep138's Avatar
United_States
177
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: 2020 M4 Competition
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Omaha

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M4 ZCP  [10.00]
2015 Audi S4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by P1et View Post
Out of curiosity, what are these going for these days?
For a "nice" manual M3 coupe with under 100k miles, you're usually budgeting high teens to low twenties. A ZCP or a really low mileage car can climb a bit higher than that.


$18k - $22k can get you a very nice, non-ZCP example pretty easily.
Appreciate 1
      05-26-2016, 11:30 AM   #54
BuzzE46
First Lieutenant
147
Rep
387
Posts

Drives: 2006 M3 E46
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

I don't think the E92 is much faster. I driven both, maybe top end its faster.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 11:31 AM   #55
Polo08816
Brigadier General
1594
Rep
3,926
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i M Sport
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
If you can't go fast with the 333 HP of the E46 M3, a more powerful car isn't going to go faster IMO.

Is the E46 M3 going to set the world on fire and beat any of the small block V8 powered cars down a quarter mile? No, no likely. Neither will ANY BMW made in the last 20 years. But anyone that claims the E46 M3 isn't fast by any stretch of the imagination? I don't know how fast you need to go. The M3 hits 60 in ~4.5 seconds, tops out at 155 governed and 180 ungoverned. On the track in capable hands, a stock E46 M3 will run circles around most of its competition and hang with anything from Stuttgart outside of the Turbo and GTx variant.

Again, I will reiterate. If you don't know how to go FAST in an E46 M3, you probably shouldn't buy one in the first place. Stick with the 320i, or better yet, get a Prius.
I'm not an expert on the track as I have what I would say as "limited" experience.

But I would say that the E46 M3 is slightly faster than a F30 335i M Sport RWD in stock configuration on a long track but very much faster in AutoX.

This is just my observation based on vehicles/drivers in the same run group as me.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 11:32 AM   #56
BuzzE46
First Lieutenant
147
Rep
387
Posts

Drives: 2006 M3 E46
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

if its a Manuel and has that mileage I would go for it the price is right. 31k is right. do it and rev it to 8000rpms. I was going to sell mine but im prob holding onto it. ;low miles are rare. I have the same specs but mines SMG and I love the SMG and I get mine and my vanos and subframe checked. they are all mint.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 12:02 PM   #57
pshep138
Private First Class
pshep138's Avatar
United_States
177
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: 2020 M4 Competition
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Omaha

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M4 ZCP  [10.00]
2015 Audi S4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzE46 View Post
I don't think the E92 is much faster. I driven both, maybe top end its faster.
Magazine tests show the E92 is much, much quicker, especially in the 1/4 mile (low 12s vs low 13s). I drove my E46 back-to-back with a DCT E90 and was blown away by how much quicker the E90 felt.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 12:41 PM   #58
BuzzE46
First Lieutenant
147
Rep
387
Posts

Drives: 2006 M3 E46
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

yes its much quicker but its not much faster after I hit 80 on the odometer it felt faster. love the car. but at this point I rather get an F80. its all preference.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2016, 09:32 PM   #59
slavik
First Lieutenant
slavik's Avatar
Ukraine
69
Rep
367
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC/DEN

iTrader: (0)

love my e46 m3, on my 3rd one-truly can't beat the balance of the car
__________________
"It's not the idea, it's the execution"
-My FlickR-

-IG-@skochur
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2016, 10:47 AM   #60
Outlaw 06
Major
Outlaw 06's Avatar
United_States
212
Rep
1,071
Posts

Drives: M240i (daily driver)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CT

iTrader: (0)

My 2004 E46 M3 is powerful, well-balanced, predictable, forgiving and is still a real joy to drive, even at 12 years of age. Additionally, the S54B32 (with cast iron block, forged steel crankshaft, individual throttle bodies, the freest flowing heads ever designed by BMW’s Motorsport Division, etc.) will definitely go down in history as one of the best naturally aspirated engines the world has ever seen. Even by today’s standards, the E46 M3’s performance is impressive, and it does almost anything that a (proficient) driver demands of it. However, if you don’t intend to track the car occasionally or routinely maintain the engine rpms above 4,500 during your daily drives, then save your money and get a standard 3-Series vehicle instead (i.e. don’t waste money on M car performance you don’t require and won’t use).
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2016, 07:18 PM   #61
3tekcorps
Major
826
Rep
1,015
Posts

Drives: In Gestation
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWGroceryGetter View Post
Whereabouts are you? Hard to find a low mileage manual in good condition without paying a boatload for a 10+ year old car.
Exactly. I actually looked for a few month thinking that I'd buy one instead of the M2 to scratch the car itch. The only decent manuals seemed way over valued to me. So many are just thrashed or high mile SMG cars.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2016, 03:05 AM   #62
Jozy
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jozy's Avatar
Singapore
170
Rep
425
Posts

Drives: R32 GTR
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw 06 View Post
My 2004 E46 M3 is powerful, well-balanced, predictable, forgiving and is still a real joy to drive, even at 12 years of age. Additionally, the S54B32 (with cast iron block, forged steel crankshaft, individual throttle bodies, the freest flowing heads ever designed by BMW’s Motorsport Division, etc.) will definitely go down in history as one of the best naturally aspirated engines the world has ever seen. Even by today’s standards, the E46 M3’s performance is impressive, and it does almost anything that a (proficient) driver demands of it. However, if you don’t intend to track the car occasionally or routinely maintain the engine rpms above 4,500 during your daily drives, then save your money and get a standard 3-Series vehicle instead (i.e. don’t waste money on M car performance you don’t require and won’t use).
listen to this guy.

had an E46 m3 too. SMG is not the worst thing in the world, don't listen to the naysayers. Drop in the CSL SMG management parameters and everything changes. For sure if you like rowing gears and for resale value, get the 6MT.

the E46 and E9X M3s have to be kept at high RPMs for the power and intoxication. the S65 obviously better with the bigger displacement but again, keeping rpms high on the highway, i'm sure it gets tiring.

turn in is sharp as expected from the M cars chassis.
__________________
30FF
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2016, 06:10 PM   #63
Takumi587
///M3 Enthusiast
Takumi587's Avatar
United_States
397
Rep
993
Posts

Drives: 05' M3 and 21' Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pasadena

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
I'm actually contemplating selling my 05 E46 ZCP...
I was contemplating the same thing with my 2005 E46 M3 Vert but knowing I could only get 13k to 20K for it I have ultimately decided to just keep it. It is paid off and insurance is only $250 for the year. No mechanical issues whatsoever as well because it sits in a garage with a trickle charger. I think your specific M3 will ultimately appreciate overtime because it is an 2005 Coupe with Competition package. If you do not have to sell it then I would keep it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWGroceryGetter View Post
I'm getting the itch again, and I can't stop scratching it! I've been searching for a low mileage manual E46 M3, preferably with comp package. EAG seems to have the best selection, though you are paying a premium, which I don't necessarily want to. But, if I'm getting a quality product back for what I'm paying, I guess you have to pay to play. I understand this is a niche market, but paying $15-18k more than KBB value.....

Anyways...how amazing is the E46 M3 to drive? I've only driven the SMG version, as I don't see the manual versions too often here in Colorado. I'll be honest, SMG sucks. But I could see the potential of the M3 if it was a manual. The feeling I had when I drove it, was that it was a more raw performance vehicle, moreso than my bloated rocket ship of an F80 .

If any of you kind ladies and gentleman could post some of your personal feedback and experiences with your E46 M3, I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks!
To the OP I have a 2005 E46 M3 Vert SMG and just purchased a 2016 535i (which I will refer to later). I know you are not looking for a Vert SMG but the engine is essentially what makes the E46 special to me. My M3 already has 102,000 miles and it still puts a smile on my face when I take it out. No issues as of yet with the SMG and catalytic converter which is what my mechanic keeps telling me everyone has had to get replaced at one point. The maintenance has not been expensive at all but then again I always got the car serviced when needed and it has been garaged its whole life. Major issues I encountered was rear bushings, a radiator leak and minor oil gasket leak.

Driving the 2016 535i I hardly find time to drive the E46 because the technology and features in the 535i are just too good. I always thought I would need to go back to the E46 M3 to feel that raw power but in all honesty I don't. If you already have an F80 M3 then I don't think you need to add the older E46 to the stable especially when it is so hard to find one in mint condition without paying a premium. The only time I could imagine you using the E46 is for the track or to take around town once a month. It is just not as comfortable and modern as the new F80 M3 is. *I got a change to autocross and take around town the F80 M3 and M4 at a BMW event last year called UDE. Loved it but had to get a more practical sedan for daily driving and for family.*

However, if you plan to make it a project car then I completely understand and hope you do find an E46 that you can add to the stable. I just do not think you would drive it as often especially with the newer and better one already in your garage. Good luck!

Last edited by Takumi587; 06-15-2016 at 06:15 PM.. Reason: Experience driving with the new M3/M4s.
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2016, 10:32 AM   #64
ethernet
Banned
6
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Hello,

Some things to note about an E46 M3 (and other S54 powered cars) that hasn't really been addressed: the cost of proper maintenance. These cars are brutally expensive if you care at all to do it right. By doing it right, I mean OE or better parts/fluids and going by the book (and then some) when it comes to intervals. The other part is doing things as a system - certain things like rear trailing arm bushings and dampers go faster than everything else but as a general rule, things should be repaired as a system to provide the highest amount of reliability (in my humble opinion).

The other thing about proper maintenance being truly honest with yourself about what the car should probably have done vs. what it needs (and when to do it) e.g. the cooling system should probably be done between 80-100K miles even if it's not broken (that's the general consensus for an older car with many years of heat cycles and changes in ambient temp). Of course you can let things go until they break (most do just looking at what's out there) but if you're like me and this is your toy, you don't want your day off of work ruined because your toy broke on you. Some people simply don't care about having the car in perfect mechanical condition; I have no issue with that either - whatever works for you.

This is a GREAT reference for all things E46 M3 maintenance:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=190111

My car now has 95K on it and it's been dead reliable since I bought it in 2011 with 62K on it. I daily drove it for two years before it turned into a toy car that gets about 3K/year on sunny days.

Stuff to look out for:

1. SMG - I love it - most people hate it and I can totally see why. It's pitiful in auto/sequential mode (which I rarely use), it's jerky, it's not especially quick at changing gears even in mode 6 (although I'm not sure a human could beat it - it's no slouch either and it's certainly more repeatable than a human will ever be), the "launch control" is do at your own risk to your drive train and it is insanely expensive to fix (pump and actuator being the two major/expensive components). For me personally as a tech guy, I think it's neat tech from yesteryear (developed in the mid/late 90s). This car is a toy car for me so I like the novelty of it all. I just love the quirkiness of it and you can tell they really spent time to try and get it right but at the end of the day, there's only so much you can do with an automated clutching system tied to a traditional clutch and manual transmission.

Read the SMG technical literature and you'll start to appreciate what it's all about (again, you have to be into the out dated tech or don't bother). Most people are clueless about the system and/or have no appreciation for it. They think it should be quick like a double clutch which it absolutely isn't (I've driven DCT on track at the BMW PC - it's brilliant - single clutch sequential transmissions from any MFG aren't even close). The first thing I ask someone when they start bashing SMG is how long they daily drove with one. Nearly everyone will say they haven't even driven one - it's quite comical actually. Anyway, I could go on about it but unless you're a geek like me, I would highly recommend waiting for a 6MT - the SMG is pretty cool though if you take the time to learn how it works and understand its limitations. There is definitely a learning curve with it as well - I feel like it takes 1000 miles to get the hang of it and many more thousands to start to enjoy it's quirkiness

2. You've I'm sure read about inspection II's - this is important. If you can't do it yourself, it's a couple grand in parts and labor. This must be done regularly - work isn't especially hard. The diff fluid is really effing expensive if you want OE stuff is about all I can say about it. Adjusting the valves is easy if you're handy with tools and understand basic mechanics.

3. Suspension. This car EATS suspension stuff (not unlike any other BMW). OE (read: not durable) RTABS last 30K miles, stock shocks last about the same, worse if you lower them and by 80-90K you can expect EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING to be completely shot out back even if it's not driven hard (these cars are old now). The front might go a little longer depending on your road conditions - mine wasn't too bad after 95K but I replaced it anyway.

ECS tuning has some nice packages that will give you an idea of what you need to replace your suspension - that is just the price of parts. If you're not handy, have tools, time and a garage, you're going to pay a mint to have it all put in. Suspension makes or breaks any BMW and the M3 is no different. This car is night and day different with 80K suspension vs. new. If you want a well sorted M3, you have to do the suspension. I'm well over 4K after doing my suspension with OE stuff and Koni shocks. Suspension also includes (again, my opinion) exhaust mounts, engine mounts, trans mounts, guibo, center bearing, wheel bearings, new mounting hardware/nuts/bolts etc. I'm definitely on the high side but I insist on doing things exactly correct.

4. VANOS - another fairly expensive weak point.

5. Rear subframe. I can almost GUARANTEE that ANY E46 M3 you look at unless it literally has no miles on it will have developed hairline cracks near the subframe mounts. Mine has them (getting repaired in a couple weeks), they all do. Watch the videos on YouTube from Redish Motorsports to get an idea of the problem. This is something that HAS to be addressed and there aren't a lot of shops that are interested in doing the work unless you live on one of the coasts. Most shops that will touch the car are at 12-1500 bucks to install the plates (like Turner's kit). Turner themselves in MA quoted me 1500 and change I think. To me, if you're not willing to do this part then don't even bother buying an E46 M3 as this could turn into a real nightmare. As an FYI - any body shop will just want to replace the floor which doesn't fix the issue.

6. Like the suspension - the cooling system is a major liability after 80K miles (this is a BMW thing, not just an E46 M3 thing). Expect 1200-1500 in parts to do it properly plus labor.

That's all I have for now. Perhaps you just want a fun toy for a year or two - that's cool too - you can probably forego a lot of the stuff above and just use up whatever is left in whatever you buy - I think a lot of people are this way (which is why it's important to have someone look at the car before you buy it).

Good luck with your search. Good ones are out there but be aware that even spending 25K on a mint one with 35K on it doesn't get you out of the woods. The suspension is still going to need to be addressed and you have that subframe to worry about. I keep an eye on E46 prices and they're all over. I think you can get a solid car for 15K, a mint one for 22-25 and a cherry '06 ZCP interlogs blue show piece for 30-35.
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2016, 11:28 PM   #65
Cheeto
New Member
Cheeto's Avatar
United_States
0
Rep
22
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

I'm a long time reader but virtually never post. I hope this is appropriate etiquette in the thread... I am selling an absolutely mint California car with 17K original miles. It's a time machine vehicle, feel free to message me if interested.

Forgot to clarify this is a 2005 Interlagos E46 M3 ZCP w/SMG

Cheers,
Appreciate 0
      09-13-2019, 12:01 PM   #66
cdb7
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 2006 M3 Convertible
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Looking to find my M3 Conv a new home

Anyone know where I can find those who might appreciate and would like to get their hands on a 06 M3 convertible...imola red with black interior; 6 speed about 67k miles. I'm the original owner and don't want to sell her to someone on the generic car sale sites who might not appreciate the e46 m3.... Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:30 PM.




e46m3
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST