[/ / / M3]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Oh...the list is really long and really subjective when it comes to the weight of everything... I can give a few highlights, I suppose.

Frog Pros:

1. I fully own it
2. 6MT engagement factor
3. Fast enough
4. IOMG still makes me happy after 3 years
5. It has the options that I require (Parking, Exec)
6. Black interior still looks new after 3 years and 19k miles driven
7. I still really like it overall. I'm happy I bought it
8. I've had zero mechanical issues with the car, rattles are minimal. They built this one right

Frog Cons:
1. It does not have some of the options that I'd like to have but don't require (vent seats, carbon interior, an interior that isn't all black)
2. Close to the end of the warranty. I could buy an extended warranty, but the profits that the warranty companies pull in make it clear how much of scam they are. I'd rather just make sure I have money in the bank for repairs or start over with a new factory warranty if the car starts to be less reliable at some point
3. 6MT does pull some attention away from the other positive attributes of the G8x (I really don't want to have an argument on this one...it makes sense or it doesn't from person to person)
4. Here and there 1st and 2nd gear are just not correct for what the engine and what the rest of the car wants to do. I could not sufficiently explain the issue in text. It's something I FEEL based on my driving experience going back to the 80's and my time in this car.
5. I have, literally, ONE friend who can drive this car. Everyone I actually spend time with cannot drive stick or are so rusty with it that they're unwilling to. If we're out and about and something happens that requires my passenger to drive us home, we're in trouble.

Trade it for a G8x X-drive Pros and Cons:

Pros:
1. I can order the colors and options that I want
2. AWD. I'm a Michigan kid who grew up in snow. I know exactly what AWD and the right tires do on their own and together, and what they don't do. If I ever lose Telework (which is possible as a Federal employee), I would likely end up having to work downtown again. I would not choose to daily drive a RWD car up and down the big Portland hill in Winter. Plus all the other bonuses of the G8x AWD setup. I dealt with that commute for 13 years and this specific hill is why I first walked into the BMW dealership and traded my RSX-S for my first AWD BMW. I CAN do 2WD on that commute with the right tires, but I'm not going to again. I'd rather drive on SW Michigan roads on shitty all seasons in winter than deal with that commute and winter tires. Michigan is flat, Oregon is not.
3. Increased focus while driving on the handling attributes of this chassis
4. My SO could drive us home if I hurt my knee or something
5. "Something new" factor. I've had this car longer than any BMW that I've owned, and longer than every car except one that I've owned since 1987.

Cons:
1. Money. Changing cars costs money.
2. I'm not convinced that my initial positive reaction to the auto AWD will hold up over time. There is a real chance that I'd be bored in six months due to the automatic.
3. The LCI changes didn't thrill me overall. I think I'd rather have a used 2023 or 2024 at some point. The change to the ambient lighting is the little thing that tipped the scales. I don't really want the lighting insanity that Mercedes is doing, but I do like ambient lighting.
4. I actually dislike ordering cars and waiting for them to arrive. I'm a weirdo, I know...but I hate it. I'd rather buy a car that is missing an option than order one.
5. The tentative Out-The-Door price on the car included a significant increase in "stealership" fees that weren't as bad 3 years ago (I went back to my paperwork and checked). I know that dealerships are having issues right now, but charging a $1k "registration fee" isn't the way to deal with their problems. There has been a decline in this dealership's honesty since they were bought out a few years ago.

I realize that the new car cons list isn't long, but the first two and the fifth have a lot of weight.

That's the best I can do this morning for putting the deliberations of the last few days into text.

Analysis paralysis. Sounds like you're not 100% happy with your current car. If the financial aspect of upgrading to a Comp is not a big deal, just do it.

[BryanCO]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Maybe for you, but how do you know until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes?

When I owned my 911's, my wife was scared to death to drive them. And honestly, that made me sad because I have enjoyed over the course of our marriage creating more of a car person out of her. And I don't want to have a car that she's afraid to drive. The M3 is not as precious to her and she has gotten way more comfortable with it than she ever did with either of the 911's. I don't think she'll ever be a speed demon, but we went on a PCA tour last fall in her Cayenne with my two kids and I caned the crap out of it and violated all kinds of speed limits on the back roads and she really enjoyed the hell out of it. And that made me way happier than the same drive would have been just solo.

So....sometimes happy wife happy life isn't just about keeping the peace. It's about getting more joy out of the things you love by sharing them with someone close to you.

Of course. But your experience is irrelevant to mine or the other guys. I’m just reading what he posted and it sounds like he LOVED the manual and compromised on his car so that his wife can ‘rarely’ drive it…

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by / / / M3

Analysis paralysis. Sounds like you're not 100% happy with your current car. If the financial aspect of upgrading to a Comp is not a big deal, just do it.

Yes, analysis paralysis is absolutely the case. However, I doubt I would ever be 100% happy with a car...that's just not me. The financial aspect isn't a huge deal, but it is more of a balancing act for me than it is for the "I also have a McLaren/GT3" crowd.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by BryanCO

Of course. But your experience is irrelevant to mine or the other guys. I’m just reading what he posted and it sounds like he LOVED the manual and compromised on his car so that his wife can ‘rarely’ drive it…

But you're reading into it with your bias which is clearly "manual uber alles". Which is fine, but given that that's not my bias, I don't read into it as that big of a compromise.

[2011ninja]

This is not complicated.

Everyone who drives a 6 speed manual M3 can drive an automatic transmission.

So it’s 100% a choice for manual drivers.

If you only want a great automatic transmission you have a lot of Options.

M3 Competition
Camry
Honda Accord
Macan
Buick
Hyundai Sonata
Nissan Altima

[Mike02z]

Originally Posted by 2011ninja

If you only want a great automatic transmission you have a lot of Options.

M3 Competition
Camry
Honda Accord
Macan
Buick
Hyundai Sonata
Nissan Altima

I know this was tongue-in-cheek but some of the “great automatic” cars you list have CVT transmissions which are absolutely horrendous. 😉

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by Mike02z

I know this was tongue-in-cheek but some of the “great automatic” cars you list have CVT transmissions which are absolutely horrendous. 😉

It is for comic relief…

What’s the best M3?

It’s a first world problems conversation…

$80,000+ car

This is better because blah blah blah…

[BryanCO]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

But you're reading into it with your bias which is clearly "manual uber alles". Which is fine, but given that that's not my bias, I don't read into it as that big of a compromise.

What I read is regret that he compromised. The compromise is the manual but it could have been color, M3 vs M4, hard top vs. convertible, etc. Agree, maybe the manual wasn't a huge compromise but regret nonetheless.

We all make compromises and have our own reasons for doing so.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by BryanCO

What I read is regret that he compromised. The compromise is the manual but it could have been color, M3 vs M4, hard top vs. convertible, etc. Agree, maybe the manual wasn't a huge compromise but regret nonetheless.

We all make compromises and have our own reasons for doing so.

It’s all in your head.

Are you setting your own goals or are you listening to someone else who has set your goals/standards for you?

The psychology starts early…

Competition
Base
Turbo Tycan (they should be sued lol)
GT
GTS
Sport
S-Line
Etc.

Once upon a time it was blasphemous to own any sports car/sedan with an automatic transmission. That used to be the gospel.

So who has set the bar for you?

Is it the marketing team from said car manufacturer or do you know what you want?

I applaud BMW marketing for resetting the table and putting an automatic transmission in an M3 and calling it the “Competition”.

[turbojg]

Auto vs manual.

I had manual shift cars all of my driving life. The high performance ones I raced and 'power' shifted all the time and didn't care about beating them because that was what they were built for and were intended to be worked on all the time.

For those that may not know what 'power' shifting is... it is keeping the gas pedal to the floor while simultaneously tapping the clutch pedal for a millisecond, just long enough to take some pressure off the splines of the synchronizer slider while the shifter is being rammed into the next gear. The brass synchronizer ring takes a beating as it has to instantaneously match rpms between the two shafts. The shifts are imperceptible when done right.

With the passenger cars I wasn't inclined to 'power' shift and really enjoyed how connected I was to driving the cars. I learned how to eat a hamburger and shift at the same time pretty well.

I really wanted my M car to be a manual for the connected driving aspects but at the same time I knew I would be beating the crap out of the gearbox by 'power' shifting it all the time and that would bother me a lot.

The other thing I find (and this becomes more of an issue as I get older) is the time it takes to decide what gear to downshift to when someone pulls up along side me and wants to give it a go. Downshift one too many gears and you are wasting time upshifting a millisecond later. Don't down shift far enough and your not in the power band. I find that the automatic can do this so much faster and more accurately than I ever could. Happy I got the M4 Comp X with the auto.

BTW - I drive a lot in 2WD as I like to be able to control the back of the car better around curves and turns. But if I'm competing I don't like wasting time spinning the tires. This car with it's torque from the turbos needs AWD and that was one of my bigger deciding factors in buying this car. I can have either AWD or 2WD in the blink of an eye.

[Indo Rider]

Originally Posted by bri1042

5. I have, literally, ONE friend who can drive this car. Everyone I actually spend time with cannot drive stick or are so rusty with it that they're unwilling to. If we're out and about and something happens that requires my passenger to drive us home, we're in trouble.

Lol, by "something happens" you mean you get sloshed? Because like what else could possibly "happen" to put you in this situation.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Indo Rider

Lol, by "something happens" you mean you get sloshed? Because like what else could possibly "happen" to put you in this situation.

I don't drink. I'm not young. Stuff could happen. I am very good at tripping over my own feet. It's a skill.

Edit - I don't drink MUCH. It's just not a thing for me. Even when I was younger, drinking an unplanned amount and then driving never happened. Just not something I was ever careless about.

[domino_z]

I agree with the comment about modern turbo cars being too powerful for a manual - but only realized it after my wife did a brief stint in an abarth spider

I had initially intended to order a manual g80 just yo get one of the last manual M cars but changed my mind after driving the auto - I’ve had and own a few cars with the zf8, currently wife’s Grecale trofeo and a jag f-pace svr, and it really has made a dual clutch obsolete and arguably the manual

I switched my order to an auto awd touring g81, thinking if I ever wanted a manual M car I could just buy a new manual m2 sitting on dealer floor at pretty much half the money of the touring (here in Australia with indi paint, ccb, buckets etc )

I’ll reserve the nostalgic 3 pedal vibe for the nostalgic analogue cars in my collection

[Bimmerfun82]

Keep the manual. When you’re done, order another manual.

I had the Comp X. It’s boring by comparison. Much more capable and faster. But the manual is a blast, especially in the rain.

[BryanCO]

Originally Posted by 2011ninja

It’s all in your head.

Are you setting your own goals or are you listening to someone else who has set your goals/standards for you?

The psychology starts early…

Competition
Base
Turbo Tycan (they should be sued lol)
GT
GTS
Sport
S-Line
Etc.

Once upon a time it was blasphemous to own any sports car/sedan with an automatic transmission. That used to be the gospel.

So who has set the bar for you?

Is it the marketing team from said car manufacturer or do you know what you want?

I applaud BMW marketing for resetting the table and putting an automatic transmission in an M3 and calling it the “Competition”.

No idea what any of that is referring to.

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by bri1042

My "keep it or trade it" dilemma continues with my 6MT Frog. After several runs of miscommunication and bad timing, I finally managed to get into a used AWD M4 at my local dealership with my sales human. I also saw their initial delivery '25 M4. The tail lights are gorgeous in person, the headlights are fine. The changes to the interior lighting is disappointing but not a deal-breaker.

I have the option of taking an allocation that's at status 112, so I'm going to have to make up my mind pretty quickly. I wasn't interested in test driving the AWD M for it's "giving it the beans" attributes, I wanted to know if I'd be instantly bored with the automatic in normal traffic. I have plenty of faith in this chassis when driven hard, regardless of transmission type and driven wheels. It's the day-to-day experience I was looking to explore...so a test drive in the middle of the city in traffic was ideal, including the "fun" rain that was drenching us yesterday.

As a bonus, the M4 I drove has the bucket seats, which I hadn't gotten to do more than sit in before yesterday. They were, indeed, absolutely dandy once I was sitting and adjusted the seat. Working from home for the last 4 years added some, uh, padding that I'm working on getting rid of but I could absolutely enjoy sitting in them every time I drove...but my questionable right hip made it very clear that I could not deal with getting OUT of them and that my SO would absolutely hate them. So no bucket seats for me.

I've driven an oddly large number of automatic cars in the last year. Loaner cars (330i and an M240i), driving friends' cars, my SO's 530e, and various test drives to satisfy my own curiosity (mostly EVs...the EV6 AWD, Polestar 2, a Model Y but also various other cars including both an auto and a manual CT4-V BW) and to help my friends who aren't car people decide on a purchase. All of them were immediately boring. From cars with a dull chassis to one or two that felt like an outright mess (the Model Y), they were all cars I could not stand to drive on a daily basis.

I expected the test drive of the auto M4 to just end the conversation that's been going on in my head for the last 5 months. It didn't. The auto changes nothing about how fantastic the G8x chassis responds and how alive it is compared to most non-Porsche modern cars. Certain auto reviewers have recently gotten hung up on the carbon seats' silly bump and ASD and they have entirely lost the plot. AWD didn't blunt the car's feel, either, at least compared to my 38 months of driving my RWD MT M3.

What a thing it is. For a modern car that doesn't cost half as much as my house to feel so happy driving in traffic, and in heavy rain, is a huge accomplishment. That's something I've enjoyed since the day I took delivery of my M3 in March of 2021 and I'm very surprised that the auto doesn't kill off much of that feeling.

"The 6MT isn't well-suited to the S58" is something we've all heard from various car review folk. There is some truth to it, but I've realized what the actual issue is, and I don't think it's unique to the S58. I don't think it's about being in boost or not. None of us buy the manual to get the best possible quarter-mile time anymore.

My own version: "Cars can be too fast for a manual transmission to be fully enjoyable". If you don't spend enough time in a particular gear (especially second), the manual transmission overwhelms the other positive aspects of the car a bit. This is part of the "Slow car fast" argument. And I think it's valid. I love my 6MT once I'm in third. I see the value of a base Cayman in this question.

I left the dealership yesterday with a tentative build setup with my sales human and an understanding that I needed to think it through before committing. I was, at that moment pretty darn sure I was going to pull the trigger. To be honest, if the initial delivery car at the dealership had ventilated seats and/or a different color scheme I think I would have bought it. I got back into my car and drove home starting with the same roads I'd done the test drive on. I had to go grocery shopping on the way home, which I didn't really want to do.
By the time I got home I was tired, I had a headache, and I was absolutely sure it wasn't worth the money to trade cars.

This morning it's entirely a 50-50 thing. The best compliment I can give the G8x is that it exists in so many versions (RWD, AWD, Auto, Manual, Sedan, Coupe, Wagon, 'vert) and it's dandy in every version.

I'll make up my mind by the end of the day. If I fail to come to a conclusion today, I'll default to keeping what I have.

...sorry for the long ramble, sometimes I just need to get my thoughts into text.

Stay manual RWD as the cars intended to be. Dont go automatic. I have a Land Rover autobiography that’s faster than any stock automatic M4. So if I want to be lazy and just smash the gas I have a Land Rover for that.

Like I have said before I wouldn’t care if the autotragic went the speed of light. Hard pass. Trying to much like being a Volkswagen/Audi.

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by 2011ninja

This is not complicated.

Everyone who drives a 6 speed manual M3 can drive an automatic transmission.

So it’s 100% a choice for manual drivers.

If you only want a great automatic transmission you have a lot of Options.

M3 Competition
Camry
Honda Accord
Macan
Buick
Hyundai Sonata
Nissan Altima

Facts.

It’s typically been this generation of lazy overweight Americans that never learned to speak another language or drive a manual car. It is what it is.

There were numerous polls that showed just what I said. 🙄

[JDUNITNOW]

The only cars I owned were manuals until my daughter was born and I traded my 3000 gt for a 98 528I and never looked back. I was on my 30's and as of today I turned 60 and contemplated trading my car for a M2. Reality kicked in and after nursing my bad knee and sciatica, I'm sticking with the auto. My car is RWD and still don't desire xdrive although I see the value in it.

[turbojg]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Keep the manual. When you’re done, order another manual.

I had the Comp X. It’s boring by comparison. Much more capable and faster. But the manual is a blast, especially in the rain.

Your gas pedal must be broken. I cannot see how anyone can say (manual or automatic) that a M4 comp can be boring.

A turbocharged car absolutely needs an automatic transmission to put a load on the engine so the turbos are producing boost before launch. It is a totally different story with a normally aspirated engine.

In the 80s I built a twin turbocharged small block Chevy Nova to drag race. Everyone at the drags was running manual transmissions and when I was building the car everyone was telling me a turbocharged car couldn't be competitive at the drags. I proved them wrong as I loaded up the engine against the torque converter when the light was coming down and had full horsepower on launch.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by turbojg

Your gas pedal must be broken. I cannot see how anyone can say (manual or automatic) that a M4 comp can be boring.

A turbocharged car absolutely needs an automatic transmission to put a load on the engine so the turbos are producing boost before launch. It is a totally different story with a normally aspirated engine.

In the 80s I built a twin turbocharged small block Chevy Nova to drag race. Everyone at the drags was running manual transmissions and when I was building the car everyone was telling me a turbocharged car couldn't be competitive at the drags. I proved them wrong as I loaded up the engine against the torque converter when the light was coming down and had full horsepower on launch.

I said the auto is boring by comparison to the manual. I had both, and I’m entitled to my opinion.

It’s not all about flat out speed. I went up against an F80 comp DCT in the canyons and had the edge, gapping every corner exit. If you know how to drive the car, it’s still plenty fast.

The comp x also suffers from the added weight and a lackluster ZF8 with sluggish downshifts compared to a DCT. 200 lbs extra on downhill esses can be a handful.

[Sonic RR]

Originally Posted by Endless619

I have a Land Rover autobiography that’s faster than any stock automatic M4.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Endless619

Stay manual RWD as the cars intended to be. Dont go automatic. I have a Land Rover autobiography that’s faster than any stock automatic M4. So if I want to be lazy and just smash the gas I have a Land Rover for that.

Like I have said before I wouldn’t care if the autotragic went the speed of light. Hard pass. Trying to much like being a Volkswagen/Audi.

+1

Honestly this obsession with 0-60 times is a bit overblown (no pun intended). The pull at higher revs is what makes ICE fun. The immense torque in a 6 cylinder with big turbos is a bit of a rough experience. BEV acceleration like in our iXM60 is incredible - smooth and immense.

The manual is so much more fun, I can hit the shifts just right and do 4s to 60, which is 0.8s slower than the comp x .. but the flipside of enjoying the engagement is worth it!