[________]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

It's called racing, Toto

If it's racing, why did he win over a radio call?
If it's racing, why didn't the safety car leave to let the cars race?

Blue flags exist for that, Hamilton had to pass all under blue flags. Verstappen didn't have to.

[Ximian]

The worst part of this race is that all the VER fans will think being insufferable is now justified.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

It's called racing, Toto

Sure if you want to call it that. Seriously, what did you think was going to happen? Everyone knew once that call was made it was done for HAM. There was no way VER wasn't going to pass HAM. The only way HAM would have won that is if VER spun out or had a mechanical problem.

If you wanted to "race", they should have kept the order and didn't let anyone pass. That would have been the most fair. Mercedes gets to see their strategy through the entire race and we would have seen what would have happened with VER on the soft tyres.

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Sure if you want to call it that. Seriously, what did you think was going to happen? Everyone knew once that call was made it was done for HAM. There was no way VER wasn't going to pass HAM. The only way HAM would have won that is if VER spun out or had a mechanical problem.

If you wanted to "race", they should have kept the order and didn't let anyone pass. That would have been the most fair. Mercedes gets to see their strategy through the entire race and we would have seen what would have happened with VER on the soft tyres.

Should should should.

If things went as they should have, Max would have already been WC a few races ago.

It doesn't matter who does the bitching, it's bitching all the same. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

EDIT: But I'm glad we all agree that the FIA has made some really bad mistakes this year

[aerobat]

Both drivers are amazing. Both deserved the win. Only one can win.
Other cars crash and that affect races and had done so all season.
It was a clear safety car situation and track shall always be cleared ASAP.
Then race should be restarted ASAP, regardless if it is lap 3 of race 1 or last lap of last race.
I think result was correct. Sure HAM was fastest, but VER was first over the line.

Really bad thing that teams try to influence race director and judges in pathetic ways. Toto is worst in that competition.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

Should should should.

If things went as they should have, Max would have already been WC a few races ago.

It doesn't matter who does the bitching, it's bitching all the same. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

EDIT: But I'm glad we all agree that the FIA has made some really bad mistakes this year

We all get that. No one is upset with the outcome. We're all upset with how the outcome happened.

Mercedes can protest all they want, it's their right, but I highly doubt anything is going to change. There's too much ambiguity in the rule book to favour one side. This will just allow those responsible to revisit, review and potentially re-write the regulations so they're a lot clearer.

[Artemis]

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Mintsopoulos

I say let Horner and Toto box it out.

Why not let their wives box it out. You know, in a white T shirt in a large tub of mud....
Makes for better TV..

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

LOL What? I'll never say anything or insult you for being a hardcore VER fan but what you said doesn't make sense and borderline moronic.

How did Toto lose the race? Mercedes' strategy worked and it was all wrapped up and you even called the race when there was still 13 laps left. The only reason why VER won was strictly on that last decision by Masi and that completely removed any advantage and essentially removed Mercedes' strategy for the race.

All this talk about RB's strategy. What strategy? Their only real strategy was with PER but even then, Mercedes ended that rather quickly. The race was fully wrapped up - everything RB did after that was not a "strategy", that was throwing everything at the wall to see what stuck. Nothing they were doing could keep up with HAM today.

Complete nonsense.

So why do you think that Red Bull called MAX to pit twice over just what ?
Over 3-4 laps ?

Of course it was a huge gamble , but Mercedes could have followed the gamble as well..And twice !

But Toto didn't wanted to gamble while he clearly saw "WHAT" was going on in the Latifi crash ...

Instead of calling Masi to (FIA) 'FIX something behind the curtains as usual , he was actually losing his time ..
He had to call his driver (HAM) in ASAP , just like Red Bull did ! Twice !

The Wolf shot today in his own paw !!!

[Crimson92]

No way the FIA changes the result. They would never admit they goofed.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Why not let their wives box it out. You know, in a white T shirt in a large tub of mud....
Makes for better TV..

Like a 'Bitch fight ?

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

No way the FIA changes the result. They would never admit they goofed.

Never underestimate the incapability of FIA this season. They might surprise you.

"You want more drama during winter break? (While Netflix in post production) you shall receive more controversial decisions/rulings."

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

So why do you think that Red Bull called MAX to pit twice over just what ?
Over 3-4 laps ?

Of course it was a huge gamble , but Mercedes could have followed the gamble as well..And twice !

But Toto didn't wanted to gamble while he clearly saw "WHAT" was going on in the Latifi crash ...

Instead of calling Masi to (FIA) 'FIX something behind the curtains as usual , he was actually losing time ..
He had the call his driver (HAM) in ASAP , just like Red Bull did ! Twice !

The Wolf shot today in his own paw !!!

What are you talking about? LOL. RB did that because it was a free and cheap pit stop to put VER on softs simple as that. You're letting the race result influence you to thinking that RB knew what was happening - no one knew that call was going to be made.

All RB was doing at that time was, let's put on the soft tyres and see what VER can do with 5 laps remaining still behind 10 or so seconds with 4 or 5 cars between him and HAM.

How are YOU going to say with 13 laps remaining, "Mercedes has this" and then with 5 laps, "oh yeah, RB planned this out all along"?

[JustinHEMI]

I can celebrate Max's win while at the same time acknowledging that he received a gift. If it wasn't for the miracle Christian spoke of, he isn't champion today.

But he is champion, and for that, I'm glad.

This shit comes with the territory.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Never underestimate the incapability of FIA this season. They might surprise you.

"You want more drama during winter break? (While Netflix in post production) you shall receive more controversial decisions/rulings."

I would be shocked.

[Mintsopoulos]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Why not let their wives box it out. You know, in a white T shirt in a large tub of mud....
Makes for better TV..

I see you are one of culture. I am for this.

[Duck360198]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

No way the FIA changes the result. They would never admit they goofed.

BINGO!!!!! Especially in the last race of the season and with ALL eyes on this race alone.

I agree that both drivers deserved to win the championship, but like this? Come on. You can't deny the talent these two have. To the new fan who just tuned in this season or this race alone, they see Max as an underdog who came back to win. To the seasoned race fan who understands the rules and what actually went on, this was a race that was handed to someone, plain and simple. Based on this race alone, did Max "deserve" to win? Nope. Prior to the safety car, even with Hamilton's older tires, the pace wasn't there for Red Bull to make up that time. Christ, they even said it on the radio. Barring a puncture to Hamilton's tires (could have happened) that race was his to lose.

But to modify the rules at the last lap? SO f-ed up. Race Control saying "Cars will not be able to pass the safety car", to "Cars will be able to pass the safety car", to only a handful of cars passing the safety car? I don't know where Max passed Hamilton on the safety car lap, but surely an incident like that isn't significant enough for anyone to consider.

The rules are clear and FIA broke their own rules. Nothing will be done and FIA would never admit fault. I do see Max winning multiple championships because of how damn good he is, but this win wasn't "earned." What a shame. Feels like the crappy officiating in the NFL this year ultimately deciding games. Makes it really difficult to get into.

[E92inNC]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

We all get that. No one is upset with the outcome. We're all upset with how the outcome happened.

This +1000

[Duck360198]

We know they don't want the race to end on a safety car, but, if they had red-flagged the race immediately for clean-up, and everyone went to the pits, wouldn't that have leveled the playing field (meaning Max and Lewis) by changing tires for at least a few laps of racing? At that point it would have come down to true strategy and the better driver.

[E92inNC]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Why not let their wives box it out. You know, in a white T shirt in a large tub of mud....
Makes for better TV..

I don’t know if Lewis is currently in a relationship but I’d prefer their ladies duke it out but with oil

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

What are you talking about? LOL. RB did that because it was a free and cheap pit stop to put VER on softs simple as that. You're letting the race result influence you to thinking that RB knew what was happening - no one knew that call was going to be made.

All RB was doing at that time was, let's put on the soft tyres and see what VER can do with 5 laps remaining still behind 10 or so seconds with 4 or 5 cars between him and HAM.

How are YOU going to say with 13 laps remaining, "Mercedes has this" and then with 5 laps, "oh yeah, RB planned this out all along"?

Right . But Toto called Masi to fix it , by please 'NO safety car now !

Toto could have fixed it by calling HAM to pit , just like MAX did .
And no matter what would have come .. The 2021 WDC was for HAM in his Rocketship !!
I'll say it again : HAM's pace was today unreal , but Mercedes lost it by lack and response of pitstop strategy ...

[FormulaMMM]

Man, for some of you guys, I really hope today’s race result doesn’t totally obscure an unmatched F1 season. The likes of which we’ll almost surely never experience again.

If you’re in HAM’s camp, you must be joking that you think the same call wouldn’t have been made if the shoe was on the other foot… Masi was right. Ending THIS wdc under safety car, or with VER having to first navigate numerous lapped, irrelevant cars? Come the eff on.

HAM’s luck, which has been abundant, ran out in the final stages of today’s race.

HAM’s skill did not. He deserved today’s race win. Has he deserved them all this year? Were they all without controversy? I don’t think so. What happened today was motor racing, fate. Just as the cards have fallen in HAM’s favor innumerable times over the years, the opposite was true today.

Merc could have pitted HAM and put him on equal tires. It was a gamble either way, but as the Williams was cleaned up it was pretty clear they were going to do everything they could to get 1-2 more laps in. To end the championship racing. I had that impression watching the broadcast. Merc didn't? They did, but opted for track position. With his pace today, I would have absolutely favored HAM on that one lap restart scenario from 2nd position.

Also worth noting, HAM didn’t go for contact in that final exchange with VER. At that point he could have taken his chances with his left front bumping VER’s right rear once Max had nearly cleared him. Class act, incredible champion. Would VER have been similarly clean to the end? Doubtful.

VER’s decision to pass as early as possible (T5) was vintage Max. No delay, maximum attack, always. As was him lighting up the rear tires coming out of the final corner onto the front straight. Because you’d take your chances with a bit of oversteer with a few hundred meters to go in the championship, good lord…

WHAT A SEASON. Can only hope that the formula changes for next year bring some more drivers & teams into the mix, create uncertainty until the end. That’s the best we can hope for because there will never be another 1 on 1 battle quite like this.