[M5ddox]

I just hope hydrogen technology has the ability to make pops and bangs

[orkinos]

Originally Posted by hufington

This is more sustainable than current EV technologies as hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.

Agreed. I believe if they can utilize the same combustion engine to burn hydrogen, it will be zero emission without the lithium etc. headache.

[Tallest]

If they dont develop charging stations, no one will be buying these cars. And to develop those, they need to actually focus on one two markets. Stop doing this to people, forcing them to switch platforms. I am ok changing between USB-C and Lighting and so on, because it costs nothing. Asking me to change car powertrain without infrastructure in place - enough already with EVs.

How about this? Force Taxi, Bus, Trash truck, Delivery devil scooter, to go electric or hydrogen or whatever else. Leave cars alone for a bit, eh? Focus on where emissions matter, like all of the above that seem to be clogging up streets every day and zero focus on them. Test infrastructure niggling bits on those, and then will see. Im sure sense of urgency will work in favour of infrastructure development.

Too much free money around: EVTOL in works while ships still use fuel oil. FFS.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by M5ddox

I just hope hydrogen technology has the ability to make pops and bangs

Yes, we have the technology to make hydrogen go bang...

[David70]

Toyota Mirai has now been out for a decade and notice how well this is working out. I'm sure the joint venture in a new vehicle will change everything. Hard to see when there will be time it's as simple to use as an EV (even with all of its problems).

I could buy an EV and charge it 95% of the time at my house or maybe I could by a hydrogen car if I lived in LA, near one of the few stations, dealt with all the hassles, never wanted to leave CA and paid a huge price for fuel for what?

The fuel price reality: 3 times gasoline
Platts last assessed California's retail hydrogen price at $33.48/kg Jan. 4, 2023, which is the weighted average hydrogen price offered at retail fueling stations across the state. The price has risen 112% from when Platts began the assessment in September 2021, according to S&P Global Commodity Insights data.

On a fuel basis comparison with conventional gasoline sold in California, the Platts hydrogen price is three times more expensive than gasoline after being adjusted for fuel efficiency.

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityin...et-development

[IcEWoLF]

It was a flop in cali and it will be a flop again.

The hydrogen stations in Cali many times don’t work…
They should just work on gas and maybe hybrid and leave the hydrogen stuff out.

[Zulu Saffa]

Completely behind hydrogen. Issue, as many have stated, is the infrastructure. Most of the world already have electric grids established. So, unfortunately, the case was easy to make and get government support to exploit and develop.

I say screw hydrogen and EV's and lets throw money and funding into synthetic fuels.

I am certainly no energy scientist or scholar, but if Chris Harris likes it, then it is good enough for me:

[Scrapula]

This worked so well in California that Shell closed all their hydrogen refueling stations back in February. It costs over $200 to fill the tank of a Toyota Mirai and that gets you about 400 miles. It costs me $30 to go the same distance in my i5.

The last I checked, it cost $2 million to build a hydrogen refueling station. Those costs need to be recouped, so I don’t see the price dropping for a while. I’d say, not in my lifetime.

[Alpine Wait]

Originally Posted by hufington

This is more sustainable than current EV technologies as hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.

Not in a format that is economically viable to be safely transported and used as fuel.

That's like saying since the earth is mostly covered with water, so no one should ever be thirsty, crops dry or municipalities lacking for such potable water.

[ShocknAwe]

Bring it on. Battery powered EVs are dumb. Such a shame to waste infrastructure $$ on charging stations which will be obsolete as soon as a better alt fuel replaces wasteful batteries. I'd rather burn money.

Next evolution on petrol/diesel pumps. Empty the H2 fill the H2. Or something different entirely but it needs to be physically refillable.

[Bimmerfun82]

The biggest news here is the furthering of the Toyota and BMW partnership.

As far as hydrogen power, hopefully they’ve found a way to keep it from exploding.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Fantastic 5

We can barely get enough infrastructure for EV’s, and now they want to introduce hydrogen. It’s not going to take. Also, people are liking not having to fill up and recharge at home. Hydrogen brings us back to the old paradigm of having to get fuel outside from a third party.

they have been attempting this for at least 20 years on a small scale... no one has figured out the point

[hufington]

Originally Posted by Alpine Wait

Not in a format that is economically viable to be safely transported and used as fuel.

That's like saying since the earth is mostly covered with water, so no one should ever be thirsty, crops dry or municipalities lacking for such potable water.

That's absolutely not the point. With that logic, none of the materials that we use today with the modern technology would be viable 100 years ago, yet we use them today. Hydrogen is the most abundant element. Period. Being able to use it in a sustainable way with minimum damage to the environment is a process that needs to be created and perfected. Oil has been known for over 2500 years, yet the way we use it in the cars today has been around for one century and the infrastructure to make it available even less than that.

[BSfmAZ]

FYI bmw has been screwing with hydrogen powered vehicles for over 20 years, they even had test cars in the US. Think Chrysler and turbines in the 60's. THE FUTURE IS NOW!?

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Fantastic 5

We can barely get enough infrastructure for EV’s, and now they want to introduce hydrogen. It’s not going to take. Also, people are liking not having to fill up and recharge at home. Hydrogen brings us back to the old paradigm of having to get fuel outside from a third party.

Back to the issue the government and the BEV industry loves to ignore. Over 80% of people in the U.S. live in cities and that number is projected to continue to increase. In major U.S. cities like Chicago only 25% of housing is single family homes. BEVs are not practical. A hydrogen fueled EV could be.

This is what a typical residential street in Chicago looks like. How do you propose BEVs are going to get charged?

[hufington]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Fool-Cell !?

Ask California how it went… 🙃

Or for that matter go ask Toyota… And the unfortunate owners that Bought them.

Today fuel cell tomorrow hydrogen ICE. It is a process and progress. If you look at the progress of the EVs, it had a sad ending as well. We could have asked the cab owners of the 19th century NY if they were still around and they would probably warn everyone not to use EVs. Doesn't mean it would be right.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by orkinos

Agreed. I believe if they can utilize the same combustion engine to burn hydrogen, it will be zero emission without the lithium etc. headache.

That’s not what this is. This is using hydrogen to provide a source of energy to do onboard charging for EVs.

[jwong77]

Originally Posted by playswcars

I love the Toyota x BMW crossover

I bet Toyota were impressed by the level of engineering from the Supra joint project.

[jwong77]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

Yes, we have the technology to make hydrogen go bang...

lol I don’t think that was the bang he was thinking of 😂

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by hufington

Today fuel cell tomorrow hydrogen ICE. It is a process and progress. If you look at the progress of the EVs, it had a sad ending as well. We could have asked the cab owners of the 19th century NY if they were still around and they would probably warn everyone not to use EVs. Doesn't mean it would be right.

Electric is just beginning and it’s here to stay

Even if you don’t happen to agree that’s fine but doesn’t make it so

Just because Cab owner aren’t great use cases doesn’t define the progress as a whole

[hufington]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Electric is just beginning and it’s here to stay

Even if you don’t happen to agree that’s fine but doesn’t make it so

Just because Cab owner aren’t great use cases doesn’t define the progress as a whole

You are missing the point and contradicting yourself. With that logic, your example that you gave in your first reply is not great use case as most of the first time use of any technology. It is not if EV stays or not. What may seem to be the way to go can change with progress. Stick with EV or whatever floats your boat.

[orkinos]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Electric is just beginning and it’s here to stay

Even if you don’t happen to agree that’s fine but doesn’t make it so

I love these EV people. Something that just started not too long ago is immediately considered the only and absolute way to go. I am getting my popcorn 🍿 to enjoy this endless debate.

On a side note, hufington did not say current EV is bad, but said just because it started bad doesn't mean that it'll go bad.