[Jonzny]

Originally Posted by AntonBurdier

So, do you think that I should increase my price range for the E46 then? Maybe around 15k for the E46?

I think you should look at the FS section on M3Forum they have a ton of cars for sale and they usually have these issues addressed.

[AntonBurdier]

Originally Posted by Jonzny

I think you should look at the FS section on M3Forum they have a ton of cars for sale and they usually have these issues addressed.

I'll take a look thanks!

[monterey]

Trying to find a clean E46 manual will be difficult. They demand a premium unless you want a car with 150k miles. I say it's a big mistake.

[1MOREMOD]

Yeah not big mistake bUT low mileage example manual hard to find

[tlow98]

Part of the lure of the E46 m3 when I had one. Get a car that has the subframe and the VANOS addressed then buy used euro headers ($400) and a tune ($800) and then go for amazing suspenders. I went with the CSL intake by evolve a had an amazing time with the car.

Would never fault anyone for owning either car!

[cmo_93]

Originally Posted by AntonBurdier

What are you leaning towards? Right now I'm leaning towards the E46!

Well, in theory, yes the e46 is cheaper to get your hands on but to get it to the level of the e92 m3 stock, you're looking at about 5-10k at least of mods, that can potentially break lol. Close enough to where you can just roll in the e92. Also, for me it came down to what did I want the car for, pure track toy or daily toy that also can do track work....for me it was the latter and the creature comforts of my e92 fit the bill perfectly....so here I am.

[cherry-m3]

Originally Posted by cmo_93

Well, in theory, yes the e46 is cheaper to get your hands on but to get it to the level of the e92 m3 stock, you're looking at about 5-10k at least of mods, that can potentially break lol. Close enough to where you can just roll in the e92. Also, for me it came down to what did I want the car for, pure track toy or daily toy that also can do track work....for me it was the latter and the creature comforts of my e92 fit the bill perfectly....so here I am.

Lets not get too crazy here. Coilovers headers and a tune the e46 will be equal if not better on a track than a stock e92. Dont forget the e92 weighs over 300lbs more than a 46. On track thats a huge disparity.

[Edward]

You're not modding properly if you think that you can pick up a cheap E46 and make that better with the same budget.

The only time I'd blindly say that going back a generation is if one were to sell a 996 of any kind and go back to a 993, all factors within reason.

[Kong Sheng Han]

A lot of people mention the $20k rule of thumb: you'll spend a total of $20k if you want to bring the car back to good shape. So if you buy a $13k car, expect to spend $7 fixing it up. $17k car, expect to spend $3.

Originally Posted by AntonBurdier

I've done some research on the subframe issue, but I'm not completely informed about it yet. So if the subframe cracks can it be fixed and be good forever, or will it always be an issue?

It seems like a never ending problem. Some people who had reinforcement plates welded in are experiencing cracking in other areas of the RACP. And let's not forget about the potential hidden cracks in areas you cannot see. There's a guy on M3F who is converting his car to a NASA race car, and he is finding cracking in hidden places while cutting the RACP up to install roll cage.

What I have done so far is epoxy in TMS plates; my car had no cracks. I will also do further reinforcing in the future, Mason bar and/or Vince method reinforcement. I would stay away from foam. If RACP cracks after foam injection, you'll have issues.

Originally Posted by AntonBurdier

Assuming that I find a decent car for 15k do you think that I should replace some of these as a precaution, or should it be done as they start having issues?

Assuming no service history, change oil right away and have oil analyzed by Blackstone. For a 2002-2006 car, should address VANOS soon. If no subframe mount reinforcement, remove subframe to thoroughly inspect RACP and reinforce if needed/wanted. If there are no cracks, I don't see any reason to reinforce right away. I drove my car on the street (kinda hard) for 1.5 years and ~6k miles before reinforcing.

Originally Posted by cherry-m3

Since you're tracking the car subframe should addressed right away.

This is wrong. It's usually cars that are constantly launched hard from a stop that experience subframe mount issues. The forces from a hard launch are higher than any stressing you'll see at the track. I would still reinforce the subframe mounts.

[jaehshim]

1. From the price point, it looks like your E92 has well over 100K mile. is it well maintained? Overall, as a daily sports/weekend track car, E92 will be miles better than the E46, regardless of the condition of a particular vehicle or no matter how much you tune the vehicle. Tuned E46 < stock e92 M3

2. E46 6MT relatively clean will be hard to find. literally 80~85% SMG tranny

3. What type of modifications are you planning to do? looks? mechanical for track use?
if properly modified as a gutted track car, E46 change will make sense. but like I mentioned...many of us have been there, done that...stock E92 is miles better.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by AntonBurdier

I've done some research on the subframe issue, but I'm not completely informed about it yet. So if the subframe cracks can it be fixed and be good forever, or will it always be an issue?

Subframe can be easily fixed forever, but it is not by the plates most people weld in.

If I were buying an e46 M3, at a minimum I'd inject structural foam in the subframe mounts ($150, 20 min), and lock down the vanos (Beisan pump disk ($150), 3 hours) and loctite the cam bolts ($1, 5 min extra if you're doing the pump disk).

That covers off all the catastrophic failure modes that can cost you (though I'd do the other vanos stuff while in there-- cheap, low effort when you're already doing the other stuff, beneficial).

Rod bearings I'd do as oil analysis says they're needed-- they're based on driving cycle, and can last from 50,000 miles (pure track cars) to 300,000+ miles (not reved out street cars). Mine came due at ~125,000 miles (including ~9000 track miles). Happily, they don't fail spontaneously like the S65.

Cooling system should be replaced at 100,000 intervals miles (true of any BMW).

All bearings/bushings/ball joints in the suspension should be replaced at 100,000 mile intervals (true of any BMW, if you want it to drive like new).

If you're planning on turboing it (you mentioned it), since that adds a LOT of torque, I might do a more bomb proof subframe lock down-- something like the Mason Bar, VinceSE2's solution, or integrating it into a roll bar.

Personally, I find the e46 far more fun than the e9X, but the e9X is certainly more comfortable. In many ways, the e46 is the more hard core M3-- harshest ride quality (stock), highest specific NA HP output, highest specific NA torque output, highest piston speeds, harshest automatic offered, most funny noises. The e9X is probably the easiest/most comfortable generation of M3, and, clearly, faster than the e46, stock vs stock. Depends what you want from a car.

The e46 is undoubtedly a more enjoyable car to work on-- every time I work on my wife's e9X, I want to sell it and replace it with an older car. Relevant, since you're looking for a project. It also has pretty unrivaled (at least within the world of BMW) aftermarket support-- pretty much every part of the car has multiple aftermarket alternatives, letting you make the car be whatever you want it to be.

[cherry-m3]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

This is wrong. It's usually cars that are constantly launched hard from a stop that experience subframe mount issues. The forces from a hard launch are higher than any stressing you'll see at the track. I would still reinforce the subframe mounts.

I'm not wrong. You literally agree with me that it should still be reinforced. Subframes can break from normal street driving; albeit consistent hard launches do increase the likelihood of a tear. I've owned multiple e46s since 2004 (still owning my original) and went through this issue before any mods or track time. Its just a weak point on the car that should be taken care of, whether you have 20k or 200k on the car.

[Jonzny]

OP if you have any questions i suggest asking Obioban, he know the E46 M3 better than I know myself lol

[AntonBurdier]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

1. From the price point, it looks like your E92 has well over 100K mile. is it well maintained? Overall, as a daily sports/weekend track car, E92 will be miles better than the E46, regardless of the condition of a particular vehicle or no matter how much you tune the vehicle. Tuned E46 < stock e92 M3

2. E46 6MT relatively clean will be hard to find. literally 80~85% SMG tranny

3. What type of modifications are you planning to do? looks? mechanical for track use?
if properly modified as a gutted track car, E46 change will make sense. but like I mentioned...many of us have been there, done that...stock E92 is miles better.

1. Its possible that I've priced it wrong. Its not well over 100k. Right now it reads 99,700. Do you think that I should raise the price a bit? (I live in NJ if that helps with anything.) Also the car is pretty well maintained.

2. I agree that's why I wan to sell my E92 and take my time looking for a really clean E46, I have another car that I'd be using as a daily anyway, so I'm in no rush to buy an E46 super quick.

3. I'm not entirely sure on all the mods that I want for the car, I'm pretty new to this stuff and I'm trying to learn. But I'd like to do both mechanical and cosmetic.

As of right now, I don't think that I'm going to turn the E46 into a full blown track car, more of a project/fun weekend car. I understand that I can do that with the E92 but, I dont have that kind of money. I know that sounds pretty dumb.

[Installsplus]

Here u go don't fall over when u see the asking price.

http://enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?f...4_0=1&x=15&y=7

[lastMleft]

Originally Posted by Installsplus

Here u go don't fall over when u see the asking price.

http://enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?f...4_0=1&x=15&y=7

lol they do have nice cars but cost big$. Good luck OP both are nice cars.

[ChiTownM]

Originally Posted by Installsplus

Here u go don't fall over when u see the asking price.

http://enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?f...4_0=1&x=15&y=7

I have been monitoring their prices for years now. They have seriously gone overboard lately though......some prices are hilarious and many cars stay with them for a very long time.

[SeanE46]

I have one for sale!

I'm on the opposite side man, I'm selling mine to get an E92 M3

About to hit 82k
Subframe reinforced
Rod Bearings addressed
Coilovers
6mt and selling for a 13k pm me.

Might even would be willing to trade+cash

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Subframe can be easily fixed forever, but it is not by the plates most people weld in.

If I were buying an e46 M3, at a minimum I'd inject structural foam in the subframe mounts ($150, 20 min), and lock down the vanos (Beisan pump disk ($150), 3 hours) and loctite the cam bolts ($1, 5 min extra if you're doing the pump disk).

That covers off all the catastrophic failure modes that can cost you (though I'd do the other vanos stuff while in there-- cheap, low effort when you're already doing the other stuff, beneficial).

Rod bearings I'd do as oil analysis says they're needed-- they're based on driving cycle, and can last from 50,000 miles (pure track cars) to 300,000+ miles (not reved out street cars). Mine came due at ~125,000 miles (including ~9000 track miles). Happily, they don't fail spontaneously like the S65.

Cooling system should be replaced at 100,000 intervals miles (true of any BMW).

All bearings/bushings/ball joints in the suspension should be replaced at 100,000 mile intervals (true of any BMW, if you want it to drive like new).

If you're planning on turboing it (you mentioned it), since that adds a LOT of torque, I might do a more bomb proof subframe lock down-- something like the Mason Bar, VinceSE2's solution, or integrating it into a roll bar.

Personally, I find the e46 far more fun than the e9X, but the e9X is certainly more comfortable. In many ways, the e46 is the more hard core M3-- harshest ride quality (stock), highest specific NA HP output, highest specific NA torque output, highest piston speeds, harshest automatic offered, most funny noises. The e9X is probably the easiest/most comfortable generation of M3, and, clearly, faster than the e46, stock vs stock. Depends what you want from a car.

The e46 is undoubtedly a more enjoyable car to work on-- every time I work on my wife's e9X, I want to sell it and replace it with an older car. Relevant, since you're looking for a project. It also has pretty unrivaled (at least within the world of BMW) aftermarket support-- pretty much every part of the car has multiple aftermarket alternatives, letting you make the car be whatever you want it to be.

This is the best, most factual info you're going to find in this thread.

That other guy that said 80% of e46s are SMG...that's way off.