05-07-2021, 01:43 AM | #1 |
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Toyota develops Hydrogen Fuel ICE
This I can get onboard with.
No heavy batteries, no long charge times, and the sounds and vibrations of an ICE nearly 0 emissions. https://www.slashgear.com/toyota-bui...some-30671055/
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05-07-2021, 07:42 AM | #3 |
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I don’t see hydrogen as a solution either.
If anything I’m hoping synth gas has a future. |
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05-07-2021, 11:10 AM | #4 |
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Stupid idea.
It takes roughly 30% of the energy that H2 can produce to just compress it into a usable form, and that doesn't even account for electrolysis to get it. Then you need high pressure tanks all over the place, trucking fuel all over, digging up tanks, installing new tanks and pumps. Ships and pipelines that can carry it, etc. The infrastructure doesn't even exist, vs. electric that does actually exist and can be upgraded as battery capacity increases. Although the energy density of H2 by weight is great, by volume it's extremely poor and it shoots itself in the foot as far as aviation, because it requires giant heavy tanks that have to be able to withstand extreme pressure and not create hazards by themselves. Having to have a continuous tank vs. something that can have wing spars and ribs running through it is a huge limiting factor. It's still better than batteries at this point for aviation and batteries may never fulfil the mission there 100%, but in just about every other application, H2 is a huge waste of resources and time when that could be spent bettering the existing electrical infrastructure. Sure, there may be some niches where H2 makes sense, but it'll never really be more than that for anything on the ground IMO. The great thing about electric is that it doesn't care where the power comes from. Burn that H2 in a gas-turbine at the source to feed the grid.
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05-07-2021, 12:52 PM | #5 |
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And Toyota seems to thin EVs are a dumb idea, since the mining and refinement of rare earth metals needed to make large EV batteries emits nearly as much CO2 as half the lifetime of a ICE. Then more CO2 to make the electricity to charge the battery (by burning coal, or natural gas). That's why Toyota doesn't have any EVs to offer. Are they wrong? Hmmm ...
I'm sort of with them on this. EV is not saving the planet, it simply shifts the CO2 blame down and up stream. A H-tank doesn't take so long to fill, and if it gives you a ICE experience, I'd be all for it.
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05-07-2021, 01:32 PM | #6 | |
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Last edited by RM7; 05-07-2021 at 01:41 PM.. |
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05-07-2021, 03:17 PM | #7 |
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This could make sense some day in limited enthusiast applications. Not likely for a regular production car, but maybe some type of crate motor or after market solution.
The idea here may be that, if we are going to have a hydrogen infrastructure for certain applications - long haul trucking or heavy machinery, for example - why not come up with another creative application that allows us to enjoy combustion vehicles "guilt free" in some capacity? It's obviously very niche, but that doesn't mean there can never be a business case. I don't think that's strictly true. First, since words matter, its worth keeping in mind that an FCEV - which is what Toyota's Mirai is - is an EV. Second, while it is certainly true that Toyota has been averse to BEVs in particular in the past, they are beginning to see the writing on the wall there. And finally, they are not the only ones who think that hydrogen will play some role in our zero emissions future. |
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05-07-2021, 03:22 PM | #8 |
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Astounded at the dissent in here. I think it brilliant, not stupid. Chasing something that is free in abundance to fuel and engine solves more problems than assuming battery tech will catch up and production of EV doesn't cause harm via lack of recycling and erosion issues. But who am I.....
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05-07-2021, 03:28 PM | #9 | |
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In an ideal world they'll figure out how to make electrolysis more efficient, and be able to make it small enough to fit on the car itself. Then you just fill up with some water and be on your way. sadly, the amount of energy it takes to produce hydrogen using this method is about equal to its output. So while I think options to keep ICE around are good, I just don't think this is going to pan out, unless some major breakthrough comes to pass. |
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05-07-2021, 04:14 PM | #10 | |
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05-08-2021, 12:44 PM | #11 | |
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This is progress. EVs and batteries are not the future, just a popular bandaid.
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05-08-2021, 01:04 PM | #12 |
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But what's it's 0-60 bruh?
Need LUDICROUS. |
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05-08-2021, 07:57 PM | #13 | |
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If you think that's all windmills...
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05-08-2021, 08:19 PM | #14 | |
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Aside from that it is clear we are on opposite sides of the street.
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05-08-2021, 09:40 PM | #15 |
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That is your answer?
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05-08-2021, 10:18 PM | #16 |
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Hydrogen isn't the answer. Storage, transport and simple generation make no sense.
[IMG]https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/tOFmh...i-98-15068.jpg[/IMG] |
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05-10-2021, 09:16 PM | #18 | |
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+1... Somehow they just gotta make it scale cheaply so they can reuse the existing infrastructure. Lots of algae producing bio fuels have been invented but none have had any traction. I think there's still a long market for ICE but also heavy support for electrification side by side. |
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05-10-2021, 09:35 PM | #19 | |
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05-11-2021, 08:10 AM | #20 |
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05-11-2021, 10:27 AM | #21 |
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You may get your wish with H2.
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05-11-2021, 10:30 AM | #22 |
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Because you are extremely biased and subjective to claim that high performance EVs are no fun and it takes a lot more energy to make, compress, store and transport H2, which drives costs up and wastes energy that could be used elsewhere, like for water extraction/transport. It's only "clean" in the combustion process. You gotta look at the whole picture.
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